Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Bhassler on Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:38 am

Overlord wrote:The main focus of this thread is to discuss the significance of celibacy. If there is a need for it.
However, it now becomes clear Webfu masters want to first discredit Jiang first just by looking at his video, and derailed the topic.
I don’t know this master.
But honestly, had you accomplished what he had?
I mean it’s always easy to making comments about others, but how about exam oneself first.

Honestly I had never seen Muaythai masters got such a treatment (by other fellow Muaythai practitioners)no matter how bad they performed in a fight. It’s constantly a cheer.

If you want to fight in MMA match and win please go ahead and prove your CMA skills. But stop bad mouthing about others skills, regiments and traditions.

And yes in Taiwan they do intermingle Baji with military. And what you see is not what you get. It’s art of war.


Considering most of the guy's background (and therefore skills) appear to be not as advertised, what makes you think he actually was celibate for four years? It's just another story to add to the myth. If you want to talk about celibacy in the abstract, start a topic in the main forum that says "Let's talk about celibacy". As it was, you posted a specific video. Part of any meaningful discussion of specific claims could include checking the credibility of the person making those claims.

The unwillingness to stand for anything or say anything negative because it might affect someone's kung fu marketing scheme is a big part of why CMA by and large sucks.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Quigga on Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:12 am

"The unwillingness to stand for anything [...] sucks."

Thanks.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby marvin8 on Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:25 pm

Overlord wrote:The main focus of this thread is to discuss the significance of celibacy. If there is a need for it.
However, it now becomes clear Webfu masters want to first discredit Jiang first just by looking at his video, and derailed the topic. ...

If you want to fight in MMA match and win please go ahead and prove your CMA skills. But stop bad mouthing about others skills, regiments and traditions.

Jiang Yu Shan wanted to prove his CMA skills by fighting and winning fights in MMA, UFC and K-1. However in 2009, he loses a MMA fight by KO. Afterwards, he competes in amateur tournaments under point sparring rules. Jiang Yu Shan's celibacy, regiments and traditions are not significant/unproven for fighting, per his own criteria.

Today, there are about a dozen Chinese MAists in the UFC and more in other MMA organizations with proven skills, regiments and training methods—as Jiang Yu Shan would say.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Overlord on Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:30 pm

Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.
There are many reasons why he may not fight well, this includes injury or personal family issues.
Above all, the fight should earn more than min medical expenses. Mostly not. It’s a business as well.

If you think you can do much better, just go ahead and prove your kungfu.
I had never ever seen a Muaythai practitioner bad mouth another’s skills, win or lose. Because it’s just part of life.

Sure, you may dislike celibacy, or certain techniques he showed but that is ok. But no need to bad mouth a teacher or another kungfu fellowman.

Jiang according to what he say is Sun Lutang lineage from Taiwan. Very interesting.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Bhassler on Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:11 pm

Overlord wrote:Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.
There are many reasons why he may not fight well, this includes injury or personal family issues.
Above all, the fight should earn more than min medical expenses. Mostly not. It’s a business as well.

If you think you can do much better, just go ahead and prove your kungfu.
I had never ever seen a Muaythai practitioner bad mouth another’s skills, win or lose. Because it’s just part of life.

Sure, you may dislike celibacy, or certain techniques he showed but that is ok. But no need to bad mouth a teacher or another kungfu fellowman.

Jiang according to what he say is Sun Lutang lineage from Taiwan. Very interesting.


So you're criticizing other forum posters because you don't like them criticizing people? Makes sense.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby AJG on Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:42 pm

Bhassler wrote:
Overlord wrote:Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.
There are many reasons why he may not fight well, this includes injury or personal family issues.
Above all, the fight should earn more than min medical expenses. Mostly not. It’s a business as well.

If you think you can do much better, just go ahead and prove your kungfu.
I had never ever seen a Muaythai practitioner bad mouth another’s skills, win or lose. Because it’s just part of life.

Sure, you may dislike celibacy, or certain techniques he showed but that is ok. But no need to bad mouth a teacher or another kungfu fellowman.

Jiang according to what he say is Sun Lutang lineage from Taiwan. Very interesting.


So you're criticizing other forum posters because you don't like them criticizing people? Makes sense.



Constructive criticism as well as constructive self assessment could be the best thing that ever happened to CMA. This is the only pathway to learning and improving.
In other words practice what you do then ask yourself how the fuck it would work, then ask yourself whether you are being realistic, then keep practicing.
CMA are great, its the general mentality of master/disciple worship that holds it back.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Strange on Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:39 pm

to be sure, Video Links is also part of the main forum
for non related or repeated topics, they are moved to Off the Topic or BTDT.

I don't think Overlord is trying to stop anyone from on-topic, constructive criticism;
but adding other topics or adopting a mocking tone, i think, is not helpful.
such as, CMA culture and student-teacher relationship

I had posted the vid to show a man's dedication to what he believes; taking real steps
to correct his past errors and the damage he may have done to his own body and mentality.

If you know/understand that celibacy or controlling one's natural desires does not work;
i would love to hear your views. As it is for myself, either from books or hearing from those more
experienced, it says that reducing one's sexual activities is in general better for overall physical
and martial development.

This is one thing.

As to how much celibacy helps each individual and to what extent... that is another thing.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby AJG on Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:11 pm

Strange

I honestly think CMA Culture and the teacher/student (or more descriptively the Master/disciple) relationship is at the heart of the problems with CMA. The holding back of information, the feeling of superiority, unwillingness to explore and the lack of willingness to constructively criticise is something we have all seen over the years. This includes stupid stuff like I know something and you don't and I'm not going to tell you what it is. And then you find out what it is it wasn't that special anyway.

As for Jiang Yu Shan I think some of the comments in this thread have been a bit unbalanced and to your point counterproductive. Then again people call it as they see it and you need to learn to take a hit or two, its not personal its the internet after all. Not the optimal approach but definitely better that what we see with much of CMA attitudes which need to change quickly.

In some respects its a little futile as there are other more progressive constantly evolving arts where people are happy to share and grow together. Like one of my past teachers said "nothing is ever lost, its just waiting to be rediscovered"

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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Strange on Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:56 pm

AJG, to me, the practice and cultivation of martial arts is/can be a deeply personal thing.
it seems to me that when some "more extreme" or "uncommon" practices are shared here;
it illicits a kind of knee-jerk, outrage response, simply cos the info does not gel well with what
is commonly understood or accepted.

I understand that its the interwebs and everyone is entitled to their own opinion; but allow
me to draw the line when a mocking tone is adopted, when one can just say "no, i don't think that's correct"
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby marvin8 on Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:10 pm

Overlord wrote:Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.
There are many reasons why he may not fight well, this includes injury or personal family issues.
Above all, the fight should earn more than min medical expenses. Mostly not. It’s a business as well.

You are making up a strawman argument. As, I did not give an opinion or criticize Jiang (not that there's anything wrong with discussing on a discussion forum).

I just posted Jiang's MMA fight and "Monkey Master in the Cage" article with his own statements. Jiang's goal was to prove his CMA material worked by winning in UFC or K-1. But for whatever reasons, he never did. However, there are other CMAists that have made it to the UFC and K-1 proving their training methods work.

Please feel free to discuss why you think Jiang's skills, regiments and traditions work in fighting.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:52 pm

Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.


Good advice for Jiang?
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby dspyrido on Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:27 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Like I say it’s always easy to talk. But don’t be cocky unless you walk the walk.


Good advice for Jiang?


Watch any UFC pre fight commentary & you will see cocky. Sometimes they win. Sometimes they get killed. From the comments Jiang's not saying anything that is anywhere near the high level mastery shit talking that happens from some of the UFC fighters.

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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby dspyrido on Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:45 pm

Just to also be clear:

1. I guess no one is saying cma is shit but if so please voice it.
2. Seems like Jiang saying he wants to mma & not winning somehow translates to him being less respected. I mentioned this before that him getting in a cage is to be commended even if he wins or looses. IMO the only people who even should say anything is those who have stepped into a cage. BTW Jiang is not a #no-touch-get-killed-taichi master. As we have seen he has had other fights & he's won some.

To these points - I mentioned some name in an earlier post but here is a reminder:

Should we write off Askren for the following or comment on wrestling?



Why not dismiss Rolles & bjj?



What about roussey & Judo?



Anyone want to even consider writing off cerone who has fought so many fights?



No I am not saying Jiang is up there with the UFC greats but what I am saying is gave it a go. Good on him for trying & he should be at least commended for what he was trying to do which is bring CMA in MMA which in 2008 was still only starting to happen. Nowadays there's a lot more younger, motivated & driven fighters trying to do that & at the very least the combination of Sanda+Shuajiow as a base which is then sprinkled with lots and lots of sparing, cardio & mixing of techniques is working.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Bhassler on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:22 pm

dspyrido wrote:Just to also be clear:

1. I guess no one is saying cma is shit but if so please voice it.
2. Seems like Jiang saying he wants to mma & not winning somehow translates to him being less respected. I mentioned this before that him getting in a cage is to be commended even if he wins or looses. IMO the only people who even should say anything is those who have stepped into a cage. BTW Jiang is not a #no-touch-get-killed-taichi master. As we have seen he has had other fights & he's won some.


1. CMA is not inherently shit, but most practitioners are. This is not necessarily their fault, as that's what they were taught by sub-par teachers. Some of those teachers are well intentioned, others are outright frauds. The frauds count on being able to hide behind false ideas of "wu de" to avoid having their shit questioned publicly, and thereby get to take advantage of more people who don't know better. This perpetuates the cycle of shitty CMA, and is a big contribution to why it's generally considered fake, or religious dance, or whatever.
2. I can't speak for everyone, but my (and some others') issues with Jiang are not because he lost at MMA. They are because his stories don't track, and his displayed skills (in *any* context outside of body conditioning) don't match up with any sort of high level skills in his alleged realms of expertise -- traditional practice, military, street, or sport. Combined with the fact that he's suddenly "emerging" as a "grandmaster" who knows all the super-true uber-secret everythings about martial arts and spiritual guruship now available at a premium price online it all becomes suspect, at best. If all he did was get in a ring and say "this is my practice, this is my experience", then he'd be worthy of respect. It's all the other crap that tells a different tale.
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Re: Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:17 pm

Bhassler wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Just to also be clear:

I can't speak for everyone, but my (and some others') issues with Jiang are not because he lost at MMA. They are because his stories don't track, and his displayed skills (in *any* context outside of body conditioning) don't match up with any sort of high level skills in his alleged realms of expertise -- traditional practice, military, street, or sport. Combined with the fact that he's suddenly "emerging" as a "grandmaster" who knows all the super-true uber-secret everythings about martial arts and spiritual guruship now available at a premium price online it all becomes suspect, at best. If all he did was get in a ring and say "this is my practice, this is my experience", then he'd be worthy of respect. It's all the other crap that tells a different tale.


Fair enough, but why are you guys giving him so much energy and attention then? Just curious why it even matters to anyone what he claims or what he does? It certainly doesn't affect my training in any way whatsoever, and I'm guessing not yours, either. :-\
Last edited by Doc Stier on Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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