Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:03 am

oragami_itto wrote:
The instructions are quite clear, once pandemic restrictions are lifted and I have a practice partner I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to replicate these results.



While his instructions are quite clear they also leave out some things that make “follow”work
in accordance with the taiji method. “Follow “ the last skill of 4 basic skills combined that allow the method to work.

Understanding it’s a demo, using certain movements from the form to demonstrate principles perhaps it’s dealt with more in depth in either his online course or in person.

You were correct it’s “fun” reading

@bao

skill level disparity between someone who is considered to be an expert or enters into competitive events is often quite large between those who are not expert level, or don‘t enter into public competitive events.

Aside from the intensity of the events, the training to enter into them is something that most people don’t have the time for, nor does it seem to be the focus of their training.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:04 am

windwalker wrote:skill level disparity between someone who is considered to be an expert or enters into competitive events is often quite large between those who are not expert level, or don‘t enter into public competitive events.

Aside from the intensity of the events, the training to enter into them is something that most people don’t have the time for, nor does it seem to be the focus of their training.

Agreed. Thread topics like this are always entertaining, mostly because they rarely address the heart of the matter.

Adam Mizner's current fame and following, along with the subsequent success of his writing, his online course, and his international seminar teaching have all been built upon the presentation and content of his many YouTube video offerings to date. Even his many haters and detractors cannot deny that this has been a very lucrative business model.

Anyone who dislikes the methods he presents, or who finds some fault with the content of his videos for any reason whatsoever, could similarly present their own YouTube videos showcasing whatever they may consider to be superior by comparison. Nonetheless, Adam has had very few equally successful competitors thus far.

These facts raise simple questions which beg to be answered fairly and honestly. Does the success of Adam's business model, and the similar success of other teachers using the same marketing plan, depend primarily on the essence of the skills demonstrated in the video content, the quality of the video production and presentation of personality, or both?

At the end of the day, I believe that any teacher who is equally capable of appealing to a wide audience of prospective students would ultimately see similar results in building a professional teaching gig using the same business model, regardless of their personal knowledge base or skill level compared to other teachers. Why do the majority of the most experienced professional teachers choose not to do so?

Hmmm! What's in your wallet? ???
Last edited by Doc Stier on Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:27 pm

dspyrido wrote:If anyone wants to practice double leg defense then don't get a noob & instruct them on how they should fall. I wouldn't even recommend an mma'er or bjj'er unless they have cross trained with wrestlers.


Liked that point. That cross knowledge and experience would be the ideal.

windwalker wrote:@bao
skill level disparity between someone who is considered to be an expert or enters into competitive events is often quite large between those who are not expert level, or don‘t enter into public competitive events.

Aside from the intensity of the events, the training to enter into them is something that most people don’t have the time for, nor does it seem to be the focus of their training.


Agreed to 100%.

However, there are always degrees of skill and experience. It’s highly unlikely that you would meet a professional top level MMA person on the street or a professional Muay Thai boxer. But still, the more realistic your understanding about the different arts, and the more you can accept your own limitations, the better.

IMHO, what many traditional martial artists are lacking is humility towards other styles and fighting methods. You can’t teach others, but you can always work on yourself.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:48 pm

But still, the more realistic your understanding about the different arts, and the more you can accept your own limitations, the better.


Provided one’s ability in whatever art is real.

“ one does not go out the door for 10 years“

An old saying, admonishing one to make sure they really understand the skill sets they feel they possess.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:00 pm

Doc the clip was put up for discussion not his business model
That is a whole other kettle of fish
Over 40 years ago I worked out what was necessary to make money out of teaching
I chose not to go down that path
If I pass on my art to 2 people I have done my job
To some lineage is more important than money in the bank
So many ways to make money
So few good arts being passed down
If what he is teaching here does not work those following this method could find themselves in trouble
I don't know wether it works or not that is for the grapplers to discuss
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:33 pm

windwalker wrote:
But still, the more realistic your understanding about the different arts, and the more you can accept your own limitations, the better.


Provided one’s ability in whatever art is real.

“ one does not go out the door for 10 years“

An old saying, admonishing one to make sure they really understand the skill sets they feel they possess.


Don’t think you understood my point. Your own skill in your own art is one thing, understanding and knowledge about other arts, other skills and the world around you is something else. If you don’t go out for ten years, you won’t see anything else than your own limited world. The masters of the old did not live in a vacuum or in caves. As children they learned martial arts to handle bullies. When they grew up, they needed to protect their houses and families. Many made a living as bodyguards and security personnel. Your own skill is only as good as how much you have been outside in the real world, how much you have interacted with it using your arts, and as how much you understand the violence around you.
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:50 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Doc the clip was put up for discussion not his business model
That is a whole other kettle of fish
...


Agreed. I don’t really understand what his success in his business has to do with the topic.

Over 40 years ago I worked out what was necessary to make money out of teaching
I chose not to go down that path
If I pass on my art to 2 people I have done my job
To some lineage is more important than money in the bank
So many ways to make money
So few good arts being passed down


Well said. I haven’t even thought about making money on my art. Can’t see the point really making it a business. What good would it do for anyone? :-\
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:11 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Doc the clip was put up for discussion not his business model. That is a whole other kettle of fish. Over 40 years ago I worked out what was necessary to make money out of teaching. I chose not to go down that path.

Fair enough. I made the same decision. My point was to address the probability that the implementation of a successful business plan is undoubtedly a primary factor in choosing the online video content and presentation for most teachers who take that route, rather than any desire to reveal the fullness of their skills or to merely entertain the viewing audience, not unlike the superficial teaser articles which appear in martial arts magazines. :-\
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:16 pm

Don’t think you understood my point. Your own skill in your own art is one thing, understanding and knowledge about other arts, other skills and the world around you is something else. If you don’t go out for ten years, you won’t see anything else than your own limited world.


The saying is an allegory referencing, one should have developed basic skill sets before engaging with others outside of their arts. In China, past and present practitioners were , are very cognizant of other arts and methods.

In most cases older practitioners would let a person know whether they’ve developed the skills or not, the time is different for each person.

People test things all the time, just not publicly.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Quigga on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:25 pm

I, for one, appreciate Doc's recent posts. Nice healing.

Re business: let's just forget how big martial arts and other body arts were in China or other countries. Let's forget the discussions we had on here regarding inner door / outer door material. The (martial) scene was a whole culture; the present pales in comparison. Teaching quite simply is hard and often thankless, often fruitless. It depends on one's expectations of what the student is supposed to achieve. Do I teach everybody the same stuff and in the same way, regardless of personal talent and effort?

A business done right always has inherent value for society. People like to curse the world economy while disregarding how much positive change has happened and how quickly it came to be.

The martial market is full of BS - rightly so if affordable, easily accessible, high quality products are lacking. There's no other force driving the BS out.

The feeling of selling out in art is common - musicians, visual artists, singers,... "The broad market is too dumb and uncultured (Or add lazy, not hardworking enough here for MA) to appreciate the true essence of my craft! Useless peasants. I shall not share my fruits for I am frustrated; more sour hour after hour. How dire is my situation... poor me. Now where the odeauvre at?"

No surviving school ever had the ambition to turn every student into a 100% one. Some stuff gets lost, some gets reinvented or rediscovered. Traditions weaken, innovations occur, the lines get stronger once more.

Wayne - Care to share your money making secrets? :D
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:34 pm

Quigga wrote:I, for one, appreciate Doc's recent posts. Nice healing.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. :)
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:39 pm

I have often wondered how many of those who post absolutely scathing comments critiquing the performance and content of every martial arts video they watch are courageous enough to similarly critique their own performance of whatever they personally practice. Probably not many, as ego apparently demands that their comments remain "only for thee, but not for me". :-\

Speaking solely for myself, I can only be the arbiter of unvarnished truth for myself alone, since nobody can practice or train anything for me, and to some degree for those who seek my guidance and instruction as their teacher. I respect everyone else's right to practice and/or teach whatever they choose to and however they choose to. The results of our individual personal efforts eventually become glaringly clear to all over time. Change my mind! @@@
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:22 pm

Money making skills I have none
I do have a nephew who went to the same private school as Adam
He is the one you should ask he is a multi millionaire
Someone said you should have basic skills
Adam has good basic skills from Huangs lineage
The only problem l see is instead of going deep into those skills he uses trickery to fool the helpless
When I first saw Adam I though here is one of the young generation with a little skill to work on
He seems to have chosen another path
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:19 pm

Quigga wrote:I, for one, appreciate Doc's recent posts. Nice healing.


I do appreciate them, as well as yours, Wayne’s and many others. But this discussion is confused. There are already two or three different discussions here that are not necessarily much related. And personally, I am already very tired of the old “if you can do better, show it.” It’s unnecessary. Let’s go back to what Doc wrote:

Doc Stier wrote:Adam has had very few equally successful competitors thus far.
These facts raise simple questions which beg to be answered fairly and honestly. Does the success of Adam's business model, and the similar success of other teachers using the same marketing plan, depend primarily on the essence of the skills demonstrated in the video content, the quality of the video production and presentation of personality, or both?


I’ve said this before. People are attracted to shows and more interested in experiencing a mystery than having it explained. If you show the simple mechanics behind a magic trick performed by a professional illusionist, no one would be exited, most people would be irritated or disappointed. They want the show. If you invite 1000 people to attend a magic show, most of them would want to go. If you offered 1000 people to teach them how to do the tricks behind the same show, only a handful would accept and most of them would decline.

It’s always the mystery and the show that attracts people, how skilled the illusionist or how advanced the skills are is not important. I can appreciate a teacher’s enthusiasm, acknowledge skill and many other things. But those qualities are still very seldom the keys to a teacher’s success on a larger scale. Being a trickster or a showman or a good marketer, and having skills and knowledge in these arts are not mutually exclusive.
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby GrahamB on Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:47 pm

Bao wrote:
I’ve said this before. People are attracted to shows and more interested in experiencing a mystery than having it explained. If you show the simple mechanics behind a magic trick performed by a professional illusionist, no one would be exited, most people would be irritated or disappointed. They want the show. If you invite 1000 people to attend a magic show, most of them would want to go. If you offered 1000 people to teach them how to do the tricks behind the same show, only a handful would accept and most of them would decline.

It’s always the mystery and the show that attracts people, how skilled the illusionist or how advanced the skills are is not important. I can appreciate a teacher’s enthusiasm, acknowledge skill and many other things. But those qualities are still very seldom the keys to a teacher’s success on a larger scale. Being a trickster or a showman or a good marketer, and having skills and knowledge in these arts are not mutually exclusive.


Excellent book on the subject:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conjuring-Asia ... 101&sr=8-1

This book charts the history of modern magic across India, China and Japan, analyzing representations in the cultural imagination of the West.
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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