the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

[youtube]https://youtu.be/6832_Ai-n7E[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/6832_Ai-n7E

Please dont put yourself in danger with this garbage.

Rhen wrote:[youtube]https://youtu.be/6832_Ai-n7E[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/6832_Ai-n7E

Please dont put yourself in danger with this garbage.

Maybe you could show us how you do it.

Taste why do that
Not everyone who doesn't like something needs to replicate it
Discuss the clip what do you think is good about it

wayne hansen wrote:Taste why do that
Not everyone who doesn't like something needs to replicate it
Discuss the clip what do you think is good about it

Well, there's not much good about it, is there? So, why post it? Also teachers don't have to be fighters. Many successful coaches were average athletes. Mizner shows how to do it but never how to apply it in real time. He has some skill but there are much better teachers out there. He should show himself using an while attacking. He is using it at stage 3 when the other guy is at the end of his punch. Do it when he is between stage 1 and 2. That's where you win the fight.

The only question that remains is he coaching them to higher levels

wayne hansen wrote:The only question that remains is he coaching them to higher levels

No, then they would not have to pay outrageous sums for his seminars. Most martial arts teachers don't want their students to be better than them. When does he ever show his students effectively using what he's taught them?

Taste of Death wrote:He should show himself using an while attacking. He is using it at stage 3 when the other guy is at the end of his punch. Do it when he is between stage 1 and 2. That's where you win the fight.

Here is a fighter that was coached to use push down (not "internal") while attacking in an actual fight. Before a punch is thrown, he controls the lead hand, steps behind and pushes down with the left hand (Osoto Gari)—high on one side, low on the other:

An should be in the body not just in the arm and hand.

Taste of Death wrote:An should be in the body not just in the arm and hand.

Yes, one way he teaches this in some of the instructional content is to induce a stretch/tension in the other person. The is part of the bridge from step 1/2 to 3, using your terms. From contact, you guide them into overextension where the jin is most effective.

I don't think young Duran could punch Adam if Adam were tied to a post, blindfolded, with his arms tied behind his back, though. There isn't a committed strike among these videos collectively. They serve more as illustrations of ideas than actual instruction. Just marketing. Pretty effective too by the looks of it.

oragami_itto wrote:

Taste of Death wrote:An should be in the body not just in the arm and hand.

Yes, one way he teaches this in some of the instructional content is to induce a stretch/tension in the other person. The is part of the bridge from step 1/2 to 3, using your terms. From contact, you guide them into overextension where the jin is most effective.

I don't think young Duran could punch Adam if Adam were tied to a post, blindfolded, with his arms tied behind his back, though. There isn't a committed strike among these videos collectively. They serve more as illustrations of ideas than actual instruction. Just marketing. Pretty effective too by the looks of it.

If you wait until stage 3 then you are playing defense. If you attack between 1 and 2 you are taking the initiative. Both can be effective.

Wayne you are making an excellent point regarding how many of his students get to the next level and it is one question I always ask myself before attending any seminar at this point.

How many of teacher X's students have something?

If the answer is none, then I don't go.

As many have pointed out, a lot of teachers do not teach with the idea of creating other masters/teachers and this is a huge problem.

I figured out a long time ago that if no one else could get anything out of teacher X, then my odds of succeeding where they failed was probably zero.

One thing I see a lot is people training their students to make them look good
This can be done with the slightest of adjustments to basic form
It is like leaving a spare key under the door mat
You can get in easily but so can others
The only problem with this from a teachers point of view is it retards your own advancement
The better you make your students the better they make you
It is like the rivalry between the Beatles and the Beach boys
If it wasn't for that they would have both drowned in mediocrity
You get caught in a low skilled loop

[quote="wayne hansen"]One thing I see a lot is people training their students to make them look good

This is something i've seen so much over the years in CMA. The fact many are still referring to teachers as master talks to the problem.

As soon as you call someone Master (I've done it too) you create an expectation in both your own mind and that of the master the idea of invincibility and infallibility. And as Wayne said you get caught in a low skilled loop so what you see these days is a function of that occurring.

Why talk about students? This video shows how poor mizner is.

He's flat footed & leaves a juicy front leg waiting to be kicked. He then attempts to convince us that this nonsense is going to work. Not the way he does it.

1. Predictive timing against a jab is a Boxing standard.
2. Leaning to sucker is another
3. So is edging backwards to lure an opponent in

Catch a punch like a jab (a non committed punch) will just end up seting up the real dangerous hit.

See #4 in the following video as a better example. The rest of the drills are also good.

I mentioned his students in response to a statement made
You are right about the skill level
Not many tai chi people would go well with a half trained boxer
Tai chi is a self defence art and not a ring sport
It is not designed to go up against a high level sportsman
It works how it is designed
It has worked for me and with boxers
So I know it has its value