Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:35 am

dspyrido wrote:So TC is the art of talking an opponent out of a fight? Or the art of not being at the wrong place at the wrong time? The art that somehow turns a person into a nobleman even when fist meets face? Care to explain which form teaches that?

Anyway I wish you all the best luck with making your "opponent not an opponent" next time you get surrounded by a bunch of idiots itching for some trouble.


Have no idea what you mean. Who brought up talking? :-\

Edit: Oh, you addressed Trick.

No, I didn't mean to talk with them.
Last edited by Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby GrahamB on Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:40 am

This live action role playing of the "fighting without fighting" scene from Enter the Dragon is bloody fantastic. More please!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNToJwKE4F0
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:46 am

Trick wrote:Yes Bao and you have some wrongs here. If mastery of Taijiquan has been achieved a fight is not a fight, and opponent is not an opponent.....and he/she is not an mere object either....You merge, and you lead them from their astray path of conflict seeking to the path of mutual understanding..this is the admirable goal of the Quan of Taiji....


No, there doesn't need to be any mutual understanding. And often you can't lead away from conflict. People who want to hurt you or rob you... You can't solve those problems by speaking nicely to them. There are also psychos, people that are affected by drugs or have alcoholic problems.

Have no idea what you are getting at.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:00 am

Bruce Lee,s Shaolin teacher came to Australia
I can't remember his name but he taught at the YMCA in HK
He was asked how many men he could beat at one time
30
30?
Yes 30 if they are 5 year old children
If it's Muhammad Ali that's a little bit harder
Last edited by wayne hansen on Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:16 am

dspyrido wrote:
Trick wrote:. If mastery of Taijiquan has been achieved a fight is not a fight, and opponent is not an opponent.....and he/she is not an mere object either....You merge, and you lead them from their astray path of conflict seeking to the path of mutual understanding..this is the admirable goal of the Quan of Taiji....


So TC is the art of talking an opponent out of a fight? Or the art of not being at the wrong place at the wrong time? The art that somehow turns a person into a nobleman even when fist meets face? Care to explain which form teaches that?

Anyway I wish you all the best luck with making your "opponent not an opponent" next time you get surrounded by a bunch of idiots itching for some trouble.
The character of “Wu” in Wushu and Wude holds the inner meaning of non conflict and peace. To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:21 am

dspyrido wrote:
But we where told it was TC. It's in the title. After that it's open to interpretation as to whether it's good TC or not but I am happy to leave it to you guys to cue the discussions around heritage, shenfa, dantien, fascia etc etc.

All I like is that they are a bit more practical in their mindset & are not assuming that doing a slow form & light repetitive handplay somehow transforms a person into a supreme ultimate warrior.

But let's put another question forward - What does real tai chi look like in a fight? What sort of real training would turn tai chi into something that is practical for a fight? Now that's an exciting topic to get into.



If they said it was BJJ would all agree that’s what was shown.

Actually the title is. “Tai chi neigong “
Some Training methods showing the training.

Looking at it, not much different from any other type of training, an observation not a judgment.

The point of the clips I posted was to show unique observable differences in style and approach that need no explanation as to what is being done or used.

“ what does real taiji look like in a fight“.

For me a strange question, often asked by those who practice taiji. Why or how could it be they don’t know.

“Any style/method “ should look pretty much the same way as it’s practiced . Same question, not only asked about taiji but CMA in General.


Real training, functional

If one adheres strictly to the standards set forth by past masters and some present day ones. It’s quite difficult maybe most people would not be able to get it.

It is said that YLC sons ran away or tried to kill themselves because the training was so difficult.
Lots of historical accounts concerning the severity of taiji training.

In order to understand the practicality of Taiji. Like anything else it’s through intended usage “fighting “ one has to
use it as trained exploring its functionality, correcting misunderstandings or developing deeper understanding.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:00 am

Trick wrote: The character of “Wu” in Wushu and Wude holds the inner meaning of non conflict and peace. To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D


mmm

Would not agree although I've heard the same sentiments expressed by others I know in China and the US.
It may be where some are at "now" and practice as such but was not the case historically.

Some points of the practice due to its unique skill sets may be part of the problem in getting the skill one has to realign
their mindset, and body structure meeting the requirements of the practice.

Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most


Do you feel this is historically "true" the naming of it ?

At the time of its introduction, it among other methods were always subjected to being tested

Ma replied “yes, but I just walk circles.” “Then perhaps you would like to try”, said the prince. Naturally he meant against Banhou.

Ma was short and slight of built his entire life, no doubt that and his age made Banhou underestimated him.

For as soon as they touched, Ma Gui sent Banhou on an uncontrolled flight, knocking down and breaking a man-sized garden vase given by the emperor in the process.
Again, thankfully Duan Wang was in a great mood that day, as Ma Gui could’ve easily lost his life over that offense.

Instead, Duan Wang made Ma Gui teacher to his son Pujun (溥儁)

https://internalmartialart.wordpress.com/?wref=bif
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:38 pm

Trick wrote: To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D


Joke or trolling, I suspect a little bit of both. Taijitu has nothing to do with maintaining peace, harmony or even balance. Believing this is a common mistake though.

The name "Taijiquan" was coined in a poem by a scholar in the 1800s expressing that he thought Yang Luchan looked powerful waving his hands just like a Tai Chi symbol.

You can find explanation of different historical Tai Chi names here.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:05 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:Yes Bao and you have some wrongs here. If mastery of Taijiquan has been achieved a fight is not a fight, and opponent is not an opponent.....and he/she is not an mere object either....You merge, and you lead them from their astray path of conflict seeking to the path of mutual understanding..this is the admirable goal of the Quan of Taiji....


You can't solve those problems by speaking nicely to them.


Have no idea what you mean. Who brought up talking? 8-)
. Have no idea what you are getting at.
yes I see that 8-)

However speaking about speaking, true mastery of the way allow ones spoken words to work favorable, actually it’s not so much the words but the voice that do the work. Also at that level the language of ones body(body language) and mental outlook make aggressors think twice
Last edited by Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:10 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote: To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D


Joke or trolling, I suspect a little bit of both. Taijitu has nothing to do with maintaining peace, harmony or even balance. Believing this is a common mistake though.

The name "Taijiquan" was coined in a poem by a scholar in the 1800s expressing that he thought Yang Luchan looked powerful waving his hands just like a Tai Chi symbol.

You can find explanation of different historical Tai Chi names here.

. To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA,
this is of course neither a joke or troll
Trick

 

Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:47 pm

windwalker wrote:
Trick wrote: The character of “Wu” in Wushu and Wude holds the inner meaning of non conflict and peace. To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D


mmm

Would not agree although I've heard the same sentiments expressed by others I know in China and the US.
It may be where some are at "now" and practice as such but was not the case historically.

Some points of the practice due to its unique skill sets may be part of the problem in getting the skill one has to realign
their mindset, and body structure meeting the requirements of the practice.

Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most


Do you feel this is historically "true" the naming of it ?

At the time of its introduction, it among other methods were always subjected to being tested

Ma replied “yes, but I just walk circles.” “Then perhaps you would like to try”, said the prince. Naturally he meant against Banhou.

Ma was short and slight of built his entire life, no doubt that and his age made Banhou underestimated him.

For as soon as they touched, Ma Gui sent Banhou on an uncontrolled flight, knocking down and breaking a man-sized garden vase given by the emperor in the process.
Again, thankfully Duan Wang was in a great mood that day, as Ma Gui could’ve easily lost his life over that offense.

Instead, Duan Wang made Ma Gui teacher to his son Pujun (溥儁)

Yes YLC’s sons had great difficult to endure their fathers strict teaching of the Taiji form with its profound intrinsic methods, young boys wanting to fight will have great difficulty with pure Taijiquan practice.
And yes from records it’s clear that none of YLC’s sons reached their fathers skill, probably because they never wanted to stop fighting especially YBH. However luckily the skill was anyway passed on to YCF, probably because of his even manners and talent 8-)
Last edited by Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby AJG on Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:52 pm

Bullshit Taiji discussions aside did anyone notice the difference between the two guys punching the dummy in the opening clip.

The first guy turns his waist, the second guy turns his knees. Practical enough for you ? You are never going to be good swinging your arse all over the place.

Hsing I / Xinyi is exactly the same.

Sorry back to the whatever that is that you guys are talking about (something about Chakra's i think).
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:15 pm

Trick wrote:

]Yes YLC’s sons had great difficult to endure their fathers strict teaching of the Taiji form with its profound intrinsic methods, young boys wanting to fight will have great difficulty with pure Taijiquan practice.

And yes from records it’s clear that none of YLC’s sons reached their fathers skill, probably because they never wanted to stop fighting especially YBH.
However luckily the skill was anyway passed on to YCF, probably because of his even manners and talent 8-)


I guess we might be speaking of different things.
My meaning was that the training itself was/is/ difficult, very difficult physically, regardless of intent.

Might want to check on the history, regarding the skill sets of YCF and YBH.
Both were known for different reasons.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:35 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote: To seek and maintain the status of conflict is not the way of CMA, Taijiquan is called the great ultimate cause it embodies this noble cause the most ....... :D


Joke or trolling, I suspect a little bit of both. Taijitu has nothing to do with maintaining peace, harmony or even balance. Believing this is a common mistake though.

The name "Taijiquan" was coined in a poem by a scholar in the 1800s expressing that he thought Yang Luchan looked powerful waving his hands just like a Tai Chi symbol.

You can find explanation of different historical Tai Chi names here.



Don't know how accurate the Historical names are when I looks to me like he gets the two different Wu lines mixed up
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:59 pm

wayne hansen wrote: he gets the two different Wu lines mixed up


Oh, didn't notice that mistake. Should be Wu Yuxiang.
Last edited by Bao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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