Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

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Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby marvin8 on Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:11 am

Neil Rosiak
Mar 30, 2021

Tai Chi Neigong (internal strength) is designed to build specific types of power for defence or offence (grappling also). Footage here of an online session teaching link between 3 Neigong exercises and striking


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVyMFpKb9hU

Neil Rosiak
Feb 24, 2021


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO3Sf4bqsPc

Neil Rosiak
Apr 11, 2020

Footage of me competing in UK's first professional MMA event 'Night of the Samurai'. It's the first time any Tai Chi fighter has competed in professional fighting as far as i'm aware. The bout was for the UK heavyweight championship .

Wudang Tai Chi has had a long tradition of successfully putting its training methods to use in full contact fighting championships.

Wudang Tai Chi master Cheng Tin Hung defeated the legendary Taiwanese Champion, You Man Tong in 1957 and achieved fame and status as Hong Kong's leading fighter of the day. He trained many generations of All Asia full contact champions in the Lei Tei matches popular then. Dan Docherty (my teacher) was one of these, winning the open weight championships despite being a super-middleweight.

Cheng Tin Hung initially learned from his uncle, Cheng Wing Kwong, who was a disciple of the Wu style master Wu Chien Chuan. Interestingly Cheng always maintained he got most of his fighting ability from his other teacher Qi Min Xuan, who learned from a slightly different lineage.

Unlike most Tai Chi people, the Wudang system has always taken a very pragmatic and realistic approach to fighting. We build power, conditioning, impeccable distance control, timing and reflexes, in addition to training a complete range of striking and grappling techniques. It can be used in all areas of a fight and generally won't look like a hand form - which is one of 5 training methods that make up the real fighting art of Tai Chi Chuan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_atkkJIqpA
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby dspyrido on Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:48 pm

At least they hit pads & have practical mindset. I assume some of these people are starting out so can't expect perfect mechanics.

Strange that in the mma fight he wears wrestling shoes and kicks. This is normally a no no.

Queue now the rsf comments of this not being real tc because of not being able to manipulate chakras, not mentioning fascia or the greatest sin - not making people bounce around like possessed lunatics. Plus I didn't see anyone wearing silk pjs so it's definitely not tc or internal.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Fubo on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:01 pm

dspyrido wrote:Strange that in the mma fight he wears wrestling shoes and kicks. This is normally a no no.



I believe this was back in the days before MMA was known as "MMA" as it is today. Back then, in the 90s/early 2000s, especially outside of the US, it was still widely referred to as "No holds barred" or "NHB", so they didn't have some of the contemporary rules that they have today, hence the shoes.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:43 pm

dspyrido wrote:At least they hit pads & have practical mindset. I assume some of these people are starting out so can't expect perfect mechanics.

Strange that in the mma fight he wears wrestling shoes and kicks. This is normally a no no.

Queue now the rsf comments of this not being real tc because of not being able to manipulate chakras, not mentioning fascia or the greatest sin - not making people bounce around like possessed lunatics. Plus I didn't see anyone wearing silk pjs so it's definitely not tc or internal.



Why not approach it from a different way.
In your opinion what makes this any different from anything else ?

In movement, or application can you point to any defining characteristics or strategies
unique to what is called Taiji?
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:50 pm

For reference

Clear stylistic differences with very clear methods and strategies in use


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2MuGLVSpsE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy0-Dt9mPiI

Don't have a problem with the OP's clip if thats what is trained and how they use what they train.
Just curious as to what people expect to see, when they list something as being representative of Taiji in action
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:58 pm

Footage of me competing in UK's first professional MMA event 'Night of the Samurai'.

It's the first time any Tai Chi fighter has competed in professional fighting as far as i'm aware. The bout was for the UK heavyweight championship .


maybe,,unless this is not considered professional

Full-contact fighting pioneer Peter Ralston...

Fighting in a competition that had previously been marred by the deaths of competitors, in 1978 Peter Ralston became the first non-Asian to win the full-contact Martial Arts World Tournament in China.

http://www.chenghsinswansea.com/the-man ... bloodsport
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby yeniseri on Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:50 pm

windwalker wrote:For reference
Very clear methods and strategies in use


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2MuGLVSpsE

Don't have a problem with the OP's clip if thats what is trained and how they use what they train.


I clearly see sanda and shuaijaio pronciples.
I have always been incapable of seeing what people say they see as taijiquan martial capabilities! Just me and the current view of applications.
I can see qi'nna, roushou/tuishou in expression and principle but beyond that.....I am bemnused
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby GrahamB on Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:54 pm

Well, he says "it won't look like a hand form". And he's right. You have to say though, there is some consistency between the methods he's teaching to the young lady and the methods he's using in the ring. It can't be denied.

But also, modern professional MMA fighters by and large have not chosen to use these method and focussed on other things instead.

I'm less interested in the question of "is this tai chi?" (because that seems undefinable in a public forum) and more interested in "is this a good representation of a particular style?". And on that front I think it is what it says it is.
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:01 am

CTH had a series of two man sets called lobster boxing that he taught for the purpose of tournament fighting
A well known entrepreneur filmed Rocky Kwong doing the set then released them on dvd calling them king prawn boxing
They are a great little set of fighting drills directly from tai chi
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby dspyrido on Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:01 am

Fubo wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Strange that in the mma fight he wears wrestling shoes and kicks. This is normally a no no.



I believe this was back in the days before MMA was known as "MMA" as it is today. Back then, in the 90s/early 2000s, especially outside of the US, it was still widely referred to as "No holds barred" or "NHB", so they didn't have some of the contemporary rules that they have today, hence the shoes.


True! It's been decades since the term NHB was thrown around but even the early UFC's had a rule around shoes & not permitting kicks. I guess since they named it MMA so I just thought it was crappy footage. We had colour in the 90s/2000s but I guess we were still mostly on video tape.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby dspyrido on Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:03 am

windwalker wrote:
dspyrido wrote:At least they hit pads & have practical mindset. I assume some of these people are starting out so can't expect perfect mechanics.

Strange that in the mma fight he wears wrestling shoes and kicks. This is normally a no no.

Queue now the rsf comments of this not being real tc because of not being able to manipulate chakras, not mentioning fascia or the greatest sin - not making people bounce around like possessed lunatics. Plus I didn't see anyone wearing silk pjs so it's definitely not tc or internal.



Why not approach it from a different way.
In your opinion what makes this any different from anything else ?

In movement, or application can you point to any defining characteristics or strategies
unique to what is called Taiji?


Well since you're asking - what do you think? What are the moves that do or don't make it different? Come to think of it since it's been mentioned - what do you think is unique to TC as applied in a confrontational examples?
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby AJG on Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 am

I looked at both clips and can't see what the tai chi has added in terms of value.

Wouldn't you be able to achieve the same result (or better) practicing some basic boxing and wrestling.

Tai chi experts - keen to hear your views
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Bao on Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:49 am

AJG wrote:I looked at both clips and can't see what the tai chi has added in terms of value.

Tai chi experts - keen to hear your views


I can’t speak of all “Wudang Practical Tai Chi Chuan”, but I know some people there, and from all of what I have watched from their practicing methods is that they work with applications and drills in a technical manner without building any real foundation as rooting, whole body movement or Dantian coordination. They go straight into that practical mode as if their art was an external style. So they need to use external strength to make anything work.
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby Trick on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:34 am

dspyrido wrote:
Queue now the rsf comments of this not being real tc because of not being able to manipulate chakras, not mentioning fascia or the greatest sin - not making people bounce around like possessed lunatics. Plus I didn't see anyone wearing silk pjs so it's definitely not tc or internal.

here i am .........no im not going to mention chakras.......but mentioning fighting and taiji in same sentence and implying the two are synonymous is not right since fighting implies an conflict and even aggression which Taiji is not about 8-)
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Re: Tai Chi Neigong: Using the forces, Self Defence—Neil Rosiak

Postby windwalker on Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:03 am

dspyrido wrote:
Well since you're asking - what do you think? What are the moves that do or don't make it different? Come to think of it since it's been mentioned - what do you think is unique to TC as applied in a confrontational examples?


Looks like you'r not going to answer my question , presenting one of your own.

As to what I think, I've presented examples of those in matches that show unique movement and clear strategies Indicative of their stylistic influences

And a question based on your comment referring to those who might not think of the OP's clip as taiji

Don't have a problem with the clip it follows their training, and outlook of taiji.

My point is that in looking at the clip, if one knew nothing about taiji,
how would one know which person was the taiji practitioner.

In movement, or application can you point to any defining characteristics or strategies
unique to what is called Taiji?
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