Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:16 pm

I can say that about a lot of martial arts
Average people everywhere
Good tai chi should contain the same aspects of every martial art
The reason good fighters come out of MMA is good ones go in
Very few people with the right fighting attitude go into tai chi
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:02 am

wayne hansen wrote:I can say that about a lot of martial arts
Average people everywhere
Good tai chi should contain the same aspects of every martial art
The reason good fighters come out of MMA is good ones go in
Very few people with the right fighting attitude go into tai chi

Agreed. This phenomenon is certainly not unique to TCC styles, but also quite common in all martial art styles since the focus for many switched from combat efficiency in realtime self-defense fighting scenarios to performance oriented priorities for tournament competition and public demonstrations.

It is exceptionally rare to see practitioners of any martial art, including famous teachers, display the signature techniques and proprietary stylistic expression of their arts in a non-choreographed, freestyle manner vs an opponent who moves with unpredictable agility, speed, and power, as well as a believable intent to actually fight, especially outside of MMA venues.

That said, with all due respect for the guys in the OP clip, I fully understand that this video is NOT intended to demonstrate live combat skills in an actual unfriendly fight. :)
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby everything on Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:24 am

that's true of every sport or physical endeavor. except usually the really, really popular sports truly do have the "best athletes" participating. vs. tai chi has 50 year old hippies (which is in itself totally fine).

if we looked at the growing sport of pickle ball (so much fun), the top tennis pros could theoretically come in and destroy the top pickle ball champs, just as theoretically the top mma fighters and grapplers could win all the push hands tournaments. but it doesn't really matter. that isn't a reason or anti-reason to take up either activity. far from it.

as to the video, agree with the guys who said there isn't really anything to talk about there, not because of holding back some kind of criticism. it would be like if i posted any typical tennis exercise to a tennis board. just nothing to say there.
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby cloudz on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:04 pm

uh

would love to say some shit, but not gonna
it just wouldn't reflect well on me.

let's just say i don't have much love for Damon Bramich

however
a couple of the comments here, given it's a compliant drill, are misplaced and or silly. take your pick.
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby Formosa Neijia on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:02 pm

dspyrido wrote:
Formosa Neijia wrote:The idea that qinna was involved was a shock to them.


As an outsider TC appears to be...

People spend years on a form like they are going to be performing for Beijing Opera or somehow think it translates to some higher state of consciousness. It can be years before they move past that.

Advancement in weapons in a similar sense is somehow representative of the culmination of solo practise in the art.Then interaction with other humans is seen as some higher level form of the art but the competitive state is just pushing people.

And then after a decade can barely defend themselves against an average thug.

Rarely have I seen it taught differently. Where it is then it's a lot more martial relevant.

Am I being unfair? Is this the right path for TC? How should it be done?


You're not being unfair. This is exactly what the main group in Taiwan was promoting so they were shocked that taiji could be applied and that they should have known this. And keep in mind that this was the electrical engineer PhD. Dr. from Boston with a 100 DVDs and books, not exactly a fighter, but then he does have a ton of DVDs on qinna so......

I learned very differently because I chose someone very skilled in martial apps of taiji and I took private sessions until i had the whole thing. Learning the basic patterns like in the OP's clip was very different for me. In the video, I can see black using only his wrist to contact red's forearm on the rollback and the elbow wrap was the first qinna I learned off of this pattern. His hand sticking up like that is begging for red to grab his hand and wrap his elbow over black's, which would teach black to never do that again. That's what happened to me and I greatly appreciate it. Without moves and experiences like that, most of this is a waste of time.

Your comment about the weapons is also spot on. Taiji weapons are seen as tools to further your taiji, not as worth doing by themselves. Therefore taiji weapons are worthless for self-defense. It doesn't have to be that way, the weapons could be taught functionally first and then as "art" or whatever.
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:10 pm

I trained with some of the best FMA stick knife and sword guys
My tai chi weapons never let me down
I would love to know who it was you had private lessons with
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 pm

Formosa Neijia wrote:Your comment about the weapons is also spot on. Taiji weapons are seen as tools to further your taiji, not as worth doing by themselves. Therefore taiji weapons are worthless for self-defense. It doesn't have to be that way, the weapons could be taught functionally first and then as "art" or whatever.

Some masters with older earlier versions of the major TCC styles taught weapon methods which included the use of shorter companion weapons of similar shape and design. In this way, I was taught to employ highly effective, practical fighting applications with a dagger, a knife, and a short stick, for example, at close quarters where the use of a straight sword, broadsword or saber, long staff or spear can be more difficult or cumbersome to use due to the length of these weapons.

Thus, the same movement patterns and techniques presented in the forms and drills for the longer traditional weapons can also easily be applied with a smaller companion weapon like a sheath knife, stiletto, or a folding pocket knife for personal self-defense, as practical examples, no problem.

Such methods are well worth learning and practicing, and are definitely NOT worthless by any reckoning, imo. ::)
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby Formosa Neijia on Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:22 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I trained with some of the best FMA stick knife and sword guys
My tai chi weapons never let me down

I guess it depends on who you train with. My push hands experience was very martially satisfying but my taiji weapons training was not. And the FMA guys I trained with in Manilla and Boracay ate my lunch. Tim Waid of pekiti-tersia kali in particular was able to shut down everything I did. I've never seen footwork and timing like he has and frankly I can't imagine any taiji weapons guy holding a candle to any of the best FMA. They do weapons everyday, taiji makes you wait until after push hands to do weapons which is years into the curriculum, meaning teachers rarely train people to do them.

Doc Stier wrote:... TCC styles taught weapon methods which included the use of shorter companion weapons of similar shape and design. In this way, I was taught to employ highly effective, practical fighting applications with a dagger, a knife, and a short stick, for example, at close quarters where the use of a straight sword, broadsword or saber, long staff or spear can be more difficult or cumbersome to use due to the length of these weapons.

Thus, the same movement patterns and techniques presented in the forms and drills for the longer traditional weapons can also easily be applied with a smaller companion weapon like a sheath knife, stiletto, or a folding pocket knife for personal self-defense, as practical examples, no problem.

Such methods are well worth learning and practicing, and are definitely NOT worthless by any reckoning, imo. ::)


I can usually tell when people are trying to take apps from long weapons and make them work with short weapons. It can work to some extent but short weapons have their own skill sets that IMHO need to be respected. Taiji weapons work is not IMO a replacement in any way, especially for serious self-defense. Something like Libre Fighting works much better for that.
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Re: Tai Chi Push Hands Meditation Damon Bramich

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:41 pm

Tony Diego Edgar Sulite christopher rickets Ernesto presses
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