Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

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Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby grasshopper on Sun May 30, 2021 12:07 pm

We ended up on our asses, but my wife and I had a great time playing a more freestyle version of push hands with Ken Wildner of the Tampa Bay Martial Arts Group. Ken's highly skilled in the chess game of push hands, and he's a good guy. We (and my students) had a blast and can't wait for him to come to town again.

https://youtu.be/LzqoNiokhsE
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:09 am

Aside from any perceived merits of what is demonstrated in the OP video, it is traditionally considered to be in poor taste for an adult male teacher to demonstrate on women or children. As an Old School practitioner of 60 years time to date, I much prefer to see men demonstrate their methods on other men of equal or greater size for more believable credibility. Just saying! :P
Last edited by Doc Stier on Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby grasshopper on Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:44 pm

Doc Stier wrote:Aside from any perceived merits of what is demonstrated in the OP video, it is traditionally considered to be in poor taste for an adult male teacher to demonstrate on women or children. As an Old School practitioner of 60 years time to date, I much prefer to see men demonstrate their methods on other men of equal or greater size for more believable credibility. Just saying! :P


Hi Doc Stier. Thanks for the comment. I can tell you that my wife would have been insulted and then later taken it out on me had she not been able to push hands with Ken. I think it's her Hung gar background. :-)
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:19 pm

Hahaha! No doubt. Happy wife, happy life! It's all good. :)
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby cloudz on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:09 pm

at 30 seconds he was in a worse position for the sweep than your wife was.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby cloudz on Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:16 pm

Doc Stier wrote:Aside from any perceived merits of what is demonstrated in the OP video, it is traditionally considered to be in poor taste for an adult male teacher to demonstrate on women or children. As an Old School practitioner of 60 years time to date, I much prefer to see men demonstrate their methods on other men of equal or greater size for more believable credibility. Just saying! :P



blimey Doc, it's all good man
get with the times grandpa :D

chinese cultural tradition, old or new, personally could-not-give-a-shit.
martial arts related or otherwise.

it's not like he's beating her up..

maybe that makes you a sexist and me a racist!
A right pair aren't we. ;D
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:42 pm

cloudz wrote:
Doc Stier wrote:Aside from any perceived merits of what is demonstrated in the OP video, it is traditionally considered to be in poor taste for an adult male teacher to demonstrate on women or children. As an Old School practitioner of 60 years time to date, I much prefer to see men demonstrate their methods on other men of equal or greater size for more believable credibility. Just saying! :P



blimey Doc, it's all good man
get with the times grandpa :D

chinese cultural tradition, old or new, personally could-not-give-a-shit.
martial arts related or otherwise.

it's not like he's beating her up..

maybe that makes you a sexist and me a racist!
A right pair aren't we. ;D

Very funny! Thanks for the pithy comment. I am so advised. Hopefully, with a bit of imagination, you can see the f-you in my grandpa smile. ;D
Last edited by Doc Stier on Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby grasshopper on Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:18 am

cloudz wrote:at 30 seconds he was in a worse position for the sweep than your wife was.


Good observation about the position.

And yeah, Ken's a solid all-around guy. Even though we played more freestyle than, say, fixed-step pushed hands, nobody was trying to maim the other.

We're looking forward to the next time he visits ... or if we ever get out to Tampa Bay, we'd love to drop by his group.

Thanks for watching and for the feedback, Cloudz.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:54 pm

I don't want to be 'that guy', but apparently, I am that guy ;D Look, this just looks some sort of wrestling done badly to me. Honestly, I think if you spent 6 months learning any type of grappling style that spars with resistence (pick Shuai Jiao if you want to stay in Chinese arts) you would be able to handle this guy without a problem. I mean, he'll probably say you broke all the rules, but.... meh, you'll just have to learn to live with yourself and your superior grappling ;D
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:45 pm

GrahamB wrote:I don't want to be 'that guy', but apparently, I am that guy ;D Look, this just looks some sort of wrestling done badly to me. Honestly, I think if you spent 6 months learning any type of grappling style that spars with resistence (pick Shuai Jiao if you want to stay in Chinese arts) you would be able to handle this guy without a problem. I mean, he'll probably say you broke all the rules, but.... meh, you'll just have to learn to live with yourself and your superior grappling ;D

Graham: With all due respect, brother, you have always been 'that guy'. Said with love. U da man! 8-)
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:57 pm

Damn Doc, I resemble that remark!
I could be wrong.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am

GrahamB wrote:Damn Doc, I resemble that remark!

Indeed, you do. Rock on, brother. Rock on! 8-)
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby grasshopper on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:22 am

GrahamB wrote:I don't want to be 'that guy', but apparently, I am that guy ;D Look, this just looks some sort of wrestling done badly to me. Honestly, I think if you spent 6 months learning any type of grappling style that spars with resistence (pick Shuai Jiao if you want to stay in Chinese arts) you would be able to handle this guy without a problem. I mean, he'll probably say you broke all the rules, but.... meh, you'll just have to learn to live with yourself and your superior grappling ;D



Haha. No worries, GrahamB, aka That Guy. Your observation is good. But Ken was a guest and just showing us some of his method and approach, so I think we all got something out of it. And yes, I agree about the value of shuai jiao (or judo or similar).

Thanks for watching and for your feedback.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:00 am

You're being far too reasonable Mr Grasshopper - you're playing this Internet game all wrong ;D

Mr Ken seems to be doing a lot of superflous and 'big' movement - my preference and tendency is always towards being more and more minimal and efficient in my movement. The big movements tend to be the preserve of beginners.
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing A More Freestyle Version of Push Hands

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:35 am

I actually just became aware of Ken's group in Tampa Bay and am planning to visit them as soon as is feasible since I'm a Floridian now. They look to be an active and earnest group so I have no doubt they're good at playing the game.

Whether "the game" is the best representation or test of "authentic" "golden age" Taijiquan skills is an entirely different question, but less important. Does Kobe play the same as Jordan?
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