Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:51 am

GrahamB wrote:Returning to the original video of the tournament...

I think inevitably, if the rules are strict people will find a way to score most points within the rules and it will end up looking... weird. A bit like today's Olympic Taekwando looks nothing like Taekwando did in the 70s or 80s.

I left the world of Korean Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, and Tae Kwon Do somewhere back in the 1960's, but not before receiving an impressive list of fractured ribs, jaws, fingers and toes. :o

Ah, the good old days when I was 9ft tall and damn near bulletproof, convinced that nothing could hurt me. This belief obviously proved NOT to be true! :-\
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:01 am

:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:07 am

:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:15 am

:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:43 pm

Trip wrote:Even inside a style like boxing, you can discern a slugger from a counter-puncher.
But, some of my family members not only don't see the style. They don't care. A fight is a fight to them.

Even people who share a style sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes have to have it explained -- because people don't always see what's really happening. Like that was a jab & not a right cross. Then they simply go "Oh, I didn't notice." No biggie. ...

There are levels to boxing, MMA, etc. Boxing, MMA, judo, taiji, etc. share similar concepts. For example, hit (push) and don't get hit (pushed). A push can be a push.

Trip wrote:I think the Old Guy is reaching for something on the ground.
Later you see it Highlighted near his right leg.

The guy on the ground gets it and tries to hit the Old Guy in the head with it.
Near the end of the fight the Old Guy disarms it from the Young Guy.
A few seconds before the last kick to the face, you can see it quickly fly off Screen Left.

http://imgur.com/Ncd7gGk.gif

Sometimes people are fixed in the agenda they're pushing
or they're focused on the hands too much
and that blinds them to the footwork and hands ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIPcM2mdowg

Taiji man pushes with similar timing, distance, dead angle and footwork found in boxing, MMA, judo, etc. Note that taiji man doesn't wait to block jab/cross, wrap or use leg skill, etc. The only contact is the timed push, which is harder to counter. Control with 0 contact -> 1, control with 1 contact -> 2, control with 2 contacts -> 3.

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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:51 pm

:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:53 pm

:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:59 pm

Trip wrote:
Graham, I may be wrong
And, you may have meant this with when you wrote "Cool Styling at the end."

But, It seems like he's just repeating (demonstrating) the successful application he just used to throw his opponent off the platform.

And, I like that bit too! :)


Can't it be both? He's demonstrating the move he just did and he's also performing it as a kind of victory dance to celebrate his cool move - part of his War Magic.
I could be wrong.
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Trip on Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:04 pm

GrahamB wrote:Can't it be both? He's demonstrating the move he just did and he's also performing it as a kind of victory dance to celebrate his cool move - part of his War Magic.


Absolutely!!! :D
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Taste of Death on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:39 pm

Xingyi is supposed to utilize the five elements fists and the various animal forms but when the fight starts, the fighters revert to their own natural movements. This is the problem with the prettiness of kung fu. If I could fight like a dragon I would but it's not practical beyond a practice method. The type of dragon stepping that I do begins with a kick to the opponent's knee or shin while splitting the upper torso, my back arm capturing the opponent's lead arm and my lead arm striking the opponent. I use the word "arm" rather than "fist" because the capturing and striking may be done by my forearm, wrist, palm, or fist. I then would step forward and hit them with beng quan with my back arm now transitioning from capturing to striking while maintaining the low stance that my initial dragon step put me in. As I execute this move I would then return to standing more upright.

Fighting should be natural. My yiquan is natural. My taiji and xingyi are not, the dragon stepping being an extreme example. I do not nor should anyone rely on all their forms or fists or whatever one wants to call them. Like in judo where they find two throws that they excel at and use only those two when fighting in competition, cima practitioners need to focus on the bare essential of their art. Know how to apply all that you know but then forget about it and train the few things that are most effective. By forgetting about them I mean to act naturally in a fight. This is hard to do and something I didn't understand until studying yiquan.

We do "body conditioning". Now we do that in track and field and rugby and whatnot as well. But in yiquan's case we are training the body to respond naturally, without the mind interfering. This is a dichotomy because while we have no intention in terms of what we are going to do (I just let my body respond by taking what they give me, their energy and weight, and giving it back to them), we use our mind's intention in everything we do. This is, of course, using the word "intention" two different ways. In the first case, I literally have no idea how I'll respond to an attack. If, on the other hand, I strike first I do have some intention but maybe not in how I execute the attack but simply to attack if I suspect that there's no backing down from the fight.

The mind's intention refers to the ability to lead the body with the mind. As an example, even though someone has grabbed my arm I still lift my hand and pick the apple from the tree. My intention is in my fingertips, beyond my opponent's grasp. If I try to resist at the point of contact, they've got me. I don't know if what I look like when I respond will look like yiquan to an observer and I don't care. Because I have limited my arsenal to a few trusted moves that correspond to how I naturally move I may well look like an yiquan fighter but that is not as important as feeling like one. I try to capture the "feeling" and hold onto it. As long as I do that I'll be giving myself my best chance no matter what it looks like.
Last edited by Taste of Death on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:24 pm

Xingyi is supposed to utilize the five elements fists and the various animal forms but when the fight starts, the fighters revert to their own natural movements. This is the problem with the prettiness of kung fu.


If you refer to the op vid, the problem here is not prettiness of forms but that no XY strategy and tactic is being used. They fight in a sanda format. I don't think they know how to fight with XY. They have probably only practiced sparring in a general sanda format.

Fighting should be natural. My yiquan is natural. My taiji and xingyi are not,


Then that is your problem, it's not an issue of the styles. It means that Yiquan is something that suites your own body and the other styles do not. Taiji is the most natural thing for my own body to use. XY was also natural to use when I used to practice it diligently.

Then why do you continue practicing XY and TJ if they don't feel natural for you?
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:35 pm

Bao wrote:
Then why do you continue practicing XY and TJ if they don't feel natural for you?


:)
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Taste of Death on Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:44 pm

windwalker wrote:
Bao wrote:
Then why do you continue practicing XY and TJ if they don't feel natural for you?


:)


I don't. I dropped them when I took up yiquan. I still do the guang ping yang form out of respect for my late teacher. But not for fighting. I do push hands because the older crowd doesn't want to get hurt. There is less potential for injury with taiji over yiquan.

With taiji one is rooted. In yiquan we find this ineffective for fighting. One must be able to move. We are more like buoys in water than trees with deep roots.

My cima's effectiveness drastically changed when I took the Han Shi Yi Quan approach to zhan zhuang, which emphasizes looking inward rather than outward at a point in the distance. We tune in to what's going on within our bodies rather than trying to tune out the noise in our heads. I used to stand for an hour a day trying to think of nothing. Now I spend 1-3 minutes at a time throughout the day doing zz. Sometimes just seconds.

Timothy Leary said:
Turn on, tune in, drop out.

We say:
Turn on, tune in, drop in.
Last edited by Taste of Death on Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:55 pm

I don't. I dropped them when I took up yiquan.


Sounds like a good choice. It's better to have a clear focus.

I am not particularly fond of yiquan for various reasons. It's not natural for my body and it contradicts some things I do.

With taiji one is rooted. In yiquan we find this ineffective for fighting. One must be able to move.


There's no contradiction. The most stable and well rooted people I've met were the fastest to move. Rooting is not bracing, instead it is storing energy in the legs like a spring. You can move and jump around easily if you understand it right.

I Yiquan people, from what I can see, they move their upper bodies too much, seperated from the lower half, and they have no clear centerline. This is wrong from a tai chi perspective. The yiquan power is different.

My cima's effectiveness drastically changed when I took the Han Shi Yi Quan approach to zhan zhuang, which emphasizes looking inward rather than outward at a point in the distance. We tune in to what's going on within our bodies rather than trying to tune out the noise in our heads.


Sounds good. We look inward as well. Self-knowledge and body awareness. Those are the real secrets in IMA.
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Re: Xing Yi Quan Combat Tournament

Postby Taste of Death on Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:41 pm

Bao wrote:I Yiquan people, from what I can see, they move their upper bodies too much, seperated from the lower half, and they have no clear centerline. This is wrong from a tai chi perspective. The yiquan power is different.


I agree. Most of what is on youtube is the Yao lineage. I don't what they're doing.

This is what we do in Han Shi Yi Quan. No separation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarQxC- ... 58E063C164
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