the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

https://youtu.be/5jD23K97RH8



Anybody know what the rules are (In English ) ? The ref seems to be stopping it for all sorts of things - no kicks that aren't straight? No hook punches?

5 seconds into the fight action, I’ve concluded this is not very good Xingyiquan. More like plain old sanda. Couldnt watch anymore. Any parts to forward to?

Some of the Xingyi schools out of Taiwan have some fighting characteristics that display the art nicely.

Wait... are you saying this is not internal?

I liked this bit best:



Nice bit of Shuai Jiao, plus a cool styling at the end

Does the fact that only 1 person commented on this mean that people aren't interested in Xing Yi as a fighting art, on a Xing Yi forum?

I think xy tournaments are as useful and educational as tjq tournaments. I think many people are interested in xy versus -for example -- wrestling, kickboxing, or Sambo, and still looking like xy.

People want fakery, not clips under real pressure.

I don't perceive any way that a so-called Xingyiquan Combat Tournament can effectively be held using those rules and that type of competition equipment. The use of the gloves alone would severely impede or prevent the effective application of most standard defensive techniques seen in all traditional Xingyiquan styles, imo, especially in regard to classical close quarters fighting techniques.

Thus, as a result, even the offensive counterstrike techniques, which usually accompany these defensive methods as finishing moves, will inevitably be replaced by basic punching methods more akin to those employed in Western Boxing, Muay Thai, and their competition oriented derivatives like modern kickboxing.

It may not always look like xing yi but the concepts are still there in Mike Patterson's students' fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CToWo0Nfqpw

Taste of Death wrote:It may not always look like xing yi but the concepts are still there in Mike Patterson's students' fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CToWo0Nfqpw

Why, why doesn't it look like what is practiced ?

example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy0-Dt9mPiI

No one has to explain whats going on,,,or point out anything other then what was used
seen by all...

Why is it, in almost all cases with those claiming to represent distinctive styles of CMA
when in use it has to be be explained

"it may not always look like xing yi"

Never seems to be applied with those labeled as boxers or BJJ stylist based on what is seen.

windwalker wrote:

Taste of Death wrote:It may not always look like xing yi but the concepts are still there in Mike Patterson's students' fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CToWo0Nfqpw

Why, why doesn't it look like what is practiced ? ...

Why is it, in almost all cases with those claiming to represent distinctive styles of CMA
when in use it has to be be explained

"it may not always look like xing yi"

Never seems to be applied with those labeled as boxers or BJJ stylist based on what is seen.

One reason is, with open rules, competitors will choose to retract their punches, not bridge nor block and evade for defense (e.g., yield):

marvin8 wrote:Opponent will jab/cross and retract their punches. So, grabbing punches is "not realistic."

Doc Stier wrote:I don't perceive any way that a so-called Xingyiquan Combat Tournament can effectively be held using those rules and that type of competition equipment. The use of the gloves alone would severely impede or prevent the effective application of most standard defensive techniques seen in all traditional Xingyiquan styles, imo, especially in regard to classical close quarters fighting techniques.

Thus, as a result, even the offensive counterstrike techniques, which usually accompany these defensive methods as finishing moves, will inevitably be replaced by basic punching methods more akin to those employed in Western Boxing, Muay Thai, and their competition oriented derivatives like modern kickboxing.

It might be interesting if you could share your views on the differences between Western competitive events and how traditional Chinese martial arts were used back in the day in the competitive events of their time.


As you may know gloves or no gloves, didn't seem to make much difference with those claiming the use of gloves interfered with their styles.

For comparison bare knuckle boxing is very different because of the lack of gloves.
Different, still effective, not much different in use between what is trained and what is used...


Not something commonly seen with those claiming to be CMA style practitioners.

marvin8 wrote:.
One reason is, with open rules, competitors will choose to retract their punches, not bridge nor block and evade for defense (e.g., yield):
Opponent will jab/cross and retract their punches. So, grabbing punches is "not realistic."

Could be, hasn't been my experience.

Rule sets where more open historically back in the day no ?

"retract their punches, not bridge nor block and evade for defense"

This was not something done back then, or unknown ?

Imo, it doesn't have to look like xy if it's a competition with other martial arts. That would make more sense if two xy people compete against each other. In that case, perhaps it "should" look like xy.

We used to have our version of "wax on, wax off" using the movements of BKTS and Wave Hands. They were turned into a sparring exercise, which could be applied in a competition --with or without gloves. I'm not sure if anyone who saw would say "that looks like tjq," though.

We've all heard it said that "you'll fight the way you train". I agree. And, that means that you'll also look like what you train. It'll be tough to disguise or conceal.

Returning to the original video of the tournament...

It may not look good or polished, but parts of it do look like Xing Yi - partly I think because the ref seems really restrictive on the type of punches that can be thrown - no hook punches allowed.

I think inevitably, if the rules are strict people will find a way to score most points within the rules and it will end up looking... weird. A bit like today's Olympic Taekwando looks nothing like Taekwando did in the 70s or 80s.