Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

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Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Rhen on Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:49 am

Came across this old video, it shows Fu Zhongwen's 4 primary disciples doing the long form. It is lead by Fu's son Fu Shengyuan in blue. People do not understand that Fu Zhongwen had to teach in the park for free so he did not give out much there as many would like to believe. The real methods were kept close with his son, grandson, and his top disciples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzTjk3IwgHM&t=5s

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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby robert on Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:27 am

Rhen wrote:People do not understand that Fu Zhongwen had to teach in the park for free so he did not give out much there as many would like to believe. The real methods were kept close with his son, grandson, and his top disciples.

What are the real methods that FZW withheld?
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby GrahamB on Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:33 am

robert wrote:
Rhen wrote:People do not understand that Fu Zhongwen had to teach in the park for free so he did not give out much there as many would like to believe. The real methods were kept close with his son, grandson, and his top disciples.

What are the real methods that FZW withheld?


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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:50 am

Rhen wrote:People do not understand that Fu Zhongwen had to teach in the park for free


Can you elaborate on this?
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Rhen on Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:00 am

Fu Zhongwen and his son Fu Shengyuan...what they showed publicly like form is not the form they really did. What was shown publicly and privately were different. For instance Strike tiger not commonly shown looks like block down and straight punch to the face whereas what is shown in public looks more like a wide hook punch. There is a lot of striking that is defanged in the public stuff.

As for teaching publicly it more under the gun of communism and not choice.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Bob on Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:44 pm

Hand training told to me years ago by a Yang Chengfu lineage holder:

Wooden balls floating in a barrel of water - push them down with an open hand and as they rise you form the crane's beak with your hand - doing this consecutively for, I don't know, 36 reps of sorts but always gentle - opening and closing, opening and closing - for what? Not sure - soft, relaxed striking?

That's all I got - from my 1990s notes and can't remember who it was - might have met them at the Tai Chi Farm in the summer - just recall that the person was a legitimate lineage holder.
Last edited by Bob on Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:50 pm

Bob wrote:That's all I got - from my 1990s notes and can't remember who it was - might have met them at the Tai Chi Farm in the summer - just recall that the person was a legitimate lineage holder.


could they fight, could they do anything using the method that was unique
only gained by following the method ?
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Bob on Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:07 pm

I really don't know - I think we were discussing hand training and softness - in particular, the dog skin hand training of pigua and its soft whip like training - it was like "yeah we have hand training in our Yang Chengfu line of training".

Showed how it was used as a strike in their single whip - which was applied from the rear side of single whip - don't know if it was special - think he wanted me to know that there was a lot more to the Yang Chengfu line than meets the eye - nothing more or nothing less than that
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:53 pm

Fwiw, Fu Zhongwen was the "gatekeeper" for the Yang family, not Zhenduo. I.e., Fu was the one who took the challenges and did the fighting. Check Louis Swaim, who translated Fu's book, if he's still on the Yangfamily board.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:01 pm

Steve James wrote:Fwiw, Fu Zhongwen was the "gatekeeper" for the Yang family, not Zhenduo. I.e., Fu was the one who took the challenges and did the fighting. Check Louis Swaim, who translated Fu's book, if he's still on the Yangfamily board.


Says Fu... How come Yang Cheng Fu never mentioned him with his other students?
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:10 pm

No idea, but I know the story from the family. And, I don't know who fights for the family now, if anyone.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Bob on Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Umm, take a look at the cover of Master Yang Style Taijiquan by Fu Zhongwen, translated by Louis Swaim - pretty clear picture of Fu Zhongwen and Yang Chengfu

Unless someone is stretching it, the intro of the book says Fu Zhongwen's book is pretty definitive - Yang Zhenji says the book is an accurate depiction of what his father taught - Yang Zhenji and Yang Zhenduo both acknowledge the ". . . Fu Zhongwen's great contributions to the art."

Maybe "gatekeeper" is too strong of a descriptor but Fu Zhongwen's contributions seem pretty important. I can't find the source now but I think Fu Zhongwen married into some part the Yang family but I am not sure.
Last edited by Bob on Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby nicklinjm on Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:16 pm

Think there is a lot of historical revisionism going on here from the Fu family. To be clear, I'm not doubting that he was a faithful major student of YCF.

However, to say that he is *the* gatekeeper or the one who mostly took challenges for YCF is stretching the facts to breaking point. If you look at the articles and books written by the various Yang style branches, the senior disciples who took challenges for YCF in the 20s and 30s were people like Zhang Qinglin, Cui Yishi, Dong Yingjie, Tian Zhaolin, Li Yaxuan and Wu Huichuan (who was a skilled wrestler before he ever studied with YCF).

Fu is nowhere to be mentioned.
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:17 pm

Dong/Tung should get a mention
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Re: Fu Zhongwen's 4 disciples

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:23 pm

"Gatekeeper" may be strong, but it's the term that was used.

I don't know about the others, but Tian Zhaolin didn't take challenges for the Yang family. Dong/Tung style is a family style, with a gatekeeper --though the meaning may not be the same. Iinm, Alex is the head of the style. Wu/Ng also has a gatekeeper, though Eddie is (was?) the officially standard bearer as well. I.e., he's head of the family style.
Yang Jun is (afaik) currently the head of the YCF family style, but I don't think he takes challenges. Ya know, many people argue that the YCF line didn't fight as much as his uncles' styles, who did medium and small "frame." That was the knock on YCF. Anyway, I'm not trying to elevate Fu, or suggest he was better than anyone already mentioned. As I said, it's probably still possible to contact the guy who translated Fu's book or even one of the family. Jarek S or Miro might also have some info.
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