Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

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Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby marvin8 on Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:19 am

Martial Arts Journey
Sep 2, 2021

Karate black belt Jesse Enkamp and aikido black belt Rokas Leo decided to do a real sparring session of aikido vs karate. The results were different than expected.

00:00 Intro
00:22 The rules of this sparring
01:15 Sparring Round 1
01:51 Round 1 afterthoughts
03:17 Sparring Round 2
03:48 Round 2 afterthoughts
05:08 Conclusions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKcb2ru7TE

Inside Martial Arts Journey
Sep 2, 2021

This is the full sparring and exchange footage of Jesse Enkamp vs Rokas Leo, AKA Karate Nerd vs Martial Arts Journey.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-OxVZXhRik
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby jbb73 on Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:09 pm

-dighole-
What is the increase of "boring"?
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby Steve James on Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:44 pm

They point out some good stuff, though. I think the basic problem is that aikidoka (in general) practice much more cooperatively when it comes to sparring than karateka. I would be interested in hearing the aikido guy's solution to the distance problem. It might not be effective in sparring like this, but self defense is a different context.

I.e., in sparring, if an opponent knows that you want to close with him, he might stay away. That's assuming he doesn't want to close in himself (or pull guard). Hey, it'd be interesting to see an aikido v muay thai leg kick. Sure. This could be applied to any art. The question is what the different solutions would be, and whether they were style specific or general.
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby GrahamB on Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:06 pm

I think the most effective way of closing the gap was tackled (ha!) back in 1993 in UFC 1 - you need to clinch and do a leg trip or go for a wrestling single leg or double. Neither of which are Aikido techniques, and then the resulting ground fighting wouldn't be Aikido either, so..... he's doomed ;D
I could be wrong.
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:05 pm

First things first. The aikido guy has to try. Failure is a lesson. Only he knows what is in the Aikido toolbox that might work.
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby Bao on Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:12 am

Steve James wrote:First things first. The aikido guy has to try. Failure is a lesson. Only he knows what is in the Aikido toolbox that might work.


Agreed. However I think he has worked with these issues for a long time and knows that it doesn't work this way.

I have no idea why they wanted to do "aikido vs karate" sparring session, seems a bit odd... or like in the 80's. Here it seems like a lame excuse for bad sparring. ;D

Get up in the octagon against a pro MMA fighter or your fighting skills don't count! ;D ;D ;D

Nah, just kidding. Any way to experiment and test things is just fine.
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby wiesiek on Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:45 am

Aikido "problems" has deep roots in the "secret teaching".
Cooperative training is the must if you practicing wrist, elbow etc., locks .
But,
Where are >atemi< ?
Which Aikido dojo work with them?
Of course experiment is fine, however w/o strikes his Aikido is uncompleted, even if he has "black belt".
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby yeniseri on Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:43 pm

When we examine aikido, we see that in order to be the 'better' aikidoka, one must train harder through one's 'younger years' then after that training has been done, the aikido principle comes into its true light. Sadly, this was done by Ueshiba and some of his contemporaries only and not the multitudes of aikido after Ueshiba passed away.

Training only "soft" (sound familiar...taiji/taijiquan ;D ) doesn't get far and people get fooled because when they get stiffed, they are shocked when pressure is applied to their sense of 'mastery and staged performance play!
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:07 pm

wiesiek wrote:Aikido "problems" has deep roots in the "secret teaching".
Cooperative training is the must if you practicing wrist, elbow etc., locks .
But,
Where are >atemi< ?
Which Aikido dojo work with them?
Of course experiment is fine, however w/o strikes his Aikido is uncompleted, even if he has "black belt".

som quotes from the master
“The way of the warrior has been misunderstood. It is not a means to kill and destroy others. Those who seek to compete and better one another are making a terrible mistake. To smash, injure or destroy is the worst thing a human being can do. The real way of the warrior is to prevent such slaughter- it is the art of peace, the power of love.” Morihei Ueshiba /quote]
. “A true warrior is invincible because he or she contests with nothing.” Morihei Ueshiba

but then as for striking he is supposed to have said -
“Atemi accounts for 99% of Aikido.”
and yes striking is about every where in the practice/techniquel, fists and elbows. they may be marked out by the instructor but as we see in the quotes by mr.ueshiba striking people is not the aim of aikido........the aikidoka in the op video stopped being an aikidoka when he choose to do competitive sparring
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:16 pm

Bao wrote:
Steve James wrote:First things first. The aikido guy has to try. Failure is a lesson. Only he knows what is in the Aikido toolbox that might work.


Agreed. However I think he has worked with these issues for a long time and knows that it doesn't work this way.

I have no idea why they wanted to do "aikido vs karate" sparring session, seems a bit odd... or like in the 80's. Here it seems like a lame excuse for bad sparring. ;D

Get up in the octagon against a pro MMA fighter or your fighting skills don't count! ;D ;D ;D

Nah, just kidding. Any way to experiment and test things is just fine.

yes i know you joke, but to point out , the martial arts school run by enkamp has MMA on its menu, jesse's brother competes at MMA events.... and as for the aikido guy with his tight batman t-shirt(if its the same video i watched) at least want to look MMAish
Last edited by Trick on Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aikido vs Karate — REAL SPARRING: Rokas vs Jesse Enkamp

Postby wiesiek on Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am

“Atemi accounts for 99% of Aikido.”
I understood this quote:
in Aikido atemi are used mostly for openings finishing techniques .
But,
my MA knowledge is limited, so please correct me if I`m sailing in wrong direction.
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