the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

https://youtu.be/7PrDOI6A0DE



I can neither confirm or deny, but that may be a rare video appearance by my tai chi teacher at 4.42 doing some gentle push hands...

(Full disclosure: I don't know why there is a crayfish featured in the video - I didn't make it)

The message was good, the forms demo...were really choppy and hard to watch

Tai Chi is Hard Work? Say it isn't so, Graham, say it isn't so!

Decades ago I had a new student in Yang-style taijiquan. Marc was a licensed mechanic who had done amateur boxing and had a black belt in karate when he started learning with me. One class he got a bit of black eye by accident. Next class he admitted to us that his co-workers at the garage where he worked hadn't believed that he had gotten a black eye learning taiji.

It's all relative, I suppose, my classes were tough compared to most local taiji classes but compared to those of mixed martial arts club or an amateur boxing gym we were sissies.

Good point about it all being relative, Michael.

I also ponder about the general level of "violence" (for want of a better word) sustained in a class. For example, a boxing class might have a fairly high level of physical contact, but it's pretty consistent, so you know what you're getting into. A Tai Chi class, on the other hand, might fluctuate wildly with outbursts of sudden and unexpected violence that seem out of place with the rest of it - so things catch you by surprise. One minute you're doing some sort of slow movement exercise that's suitable for old ladies, then next minute, somebody is trying to really punch you in the face (under the guise of "push hands") and your mindset hasn't had time to adjust.

The first seems is kind of fair enough - you know what you signed up for, the second is all too common and seems highly passive aggressive to me.

Good points, Graham, I always made sure in a group class that everyone knew what was expected of whatever we were doing at that point -- and what was out-of-bounds -- of course, my group classes were rarely more than ten people at a time, all of whom knew that we were doing a recreational martial art and that there was some risk of accidental injury.

On the other hand, we sometimes trained with people from other like-minded clubs and what you suggest was always a risk in such venues. Some people don't like to lose face or appear to lose face when doing something supposedly friendly and tempers sometimes got lost. It's up to the teacher and/or senior students to take control of such situations before they escalate.

I suppose you could also argue that running the risk of getting punched or thrown by a stranger just makes the push-hands or applications training a little more relevant to self-defense; but people should also stick to fair-play and whatever rules are enforced if it's an organized event.

I used to "push" with everyone who showed an interest when I was younger; now I'm fussy about who I touch hands with... sadly, not everyone is as sweet as I am.

Nothing in that video to fear
Apart from some of the worst tai chi I have seen since the hippy days

Jesus fucking christ. I mean I appreciate the effort going into video, but what I've seen reminds me of what I did when I was 16 and 2 years into Yang style tai chi. Please don't try to fight with that, you'll only get yourself hurt and a complimentary reality check.

Terrific or terrifying - very much in the eye of the beholder.

The eyes are a valid target as well Some bigger, some smaller. Sometimes the nose gets in the way, that's annoying! Do I have to add:

'This post was made by me, the one who luckily carries at least one eye and will hold dearly onto both of 'em - they being snuggly tucked away in my skull - which makes me, the quasi-official owner of my eyes - leveling me up to Beholder status.'

Or: 'All opinions are subjective, including mine, and may change over time when presented with new relevant experiences or data.'

to my signature? Isn't it great that we can have different opinions and not get shot for that ?

It's the principles of movement that are important. What makes TCC the way it is is that the form is a vehicle for internalising the principles of the art. Which means that two forms can be quite dissimilar but still be correct, as long as the principles are correctly applied.

GrahamB wrote:It's the principles of movement that are important. What makes TCC the way it is is that the form is a vehicle for internalising the principles of the art. Which means that two forms can be quite dissimilar but still be correct, as long as the principles are correctly applied.

The classics talk about knowing the feet, inches, hundredths part and thousandths part of the movements and performing them precisely.

I believe that it's not the details of a movement that are particularly important, but that the practice of saturating the body with awareness and developing the thousandth part precision of control is where the magic happens.

I mean, except of course for the two step fart and die technique that must be performed exactly correct and then no can defend, but they defanged the public forms and removed that anyways.

oragami_itto wrote:the practice of saturating the body with awareness and developing the thousandth part precision of control is where the magic happens.

Well said. Wholeheartedly agree.

Yes two arts can look different but still follow the principles
However the ones on this clip do not

GrahamB wrote:It's the principles of movement that are important. What makes TCC the way it is is that the form is a vehicle for internalising the principles of the art. Which means that two forms can be quite dissimilar but still be correct, as long as the principles are correctly applied.

You don't say, Graham...

OK Wayne, message received.