Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

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Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby C.J.W. on Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:55 am

Just came across this nice little clip which demonstrates applications of WC's triangle (wedge) principle using a simple opening motion taken from the wooden dummy form.

I'm always more impressed by people who can effectively apply the basics of an art than those who like to show off endless intricate techniques.




P.S. The fact that this WC comes from a non-Yip Man lineage is also an exhilarating change. (It's Yuen Kai Wan WC from Vietnam.) ;)
Last edited by C.J.W. on Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby Bao on Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:05 am

I am not exactly sure how this "moving straight forward thing" would work against common boxing footwork, as someone who jabs while constantly hopping around. Or how to wedge yourself against someone's head or throat would work as a finishing move. :P
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby C.J.W. on Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:18 am

Well, like I said they are just basic applications meant to demonstrate a principle.

And from a self-defense point of view, someone who tries to jump you on the street usually doesn't hop around and throw jabs -- they come at you with everything they've got with the intention of knocking your head off.

I used to teach a 4-week self-defense class for middle-aged men and women, and would show this type of "wedging" using postures taken from Bagua against common circular attacks to the head (e.g., haymakers, club swings, slaps) seen in street fights. IMO, wedging is the simplest and most effective method for beginners who wish to develop a basic level of competence against such attacks within a short period of time.

It's found in Silat too.

Last edited by C.J.W. on Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:40 pm

The shot from above is interesting where he drags the punch from his right side across the target to his left
A mistake in my books
Imagine if it was a blade
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby Bhassler on Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:11 pm

It's a great starting point for teaching structure, angles, and using one's body mass to generate force. Once a physical understanding has been developed, then you can start to use moving triangles and mobilize body mass in more complex patterns.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t&v=pF-YAnreZrM[/youtube]
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:27 pm

wayne hansen wrote:The shot from above is interesting where he drags the punch from his right side across the target to his left
A mistake in my books
Imagine if it was a blade
My soccer coach told me never carry the ball across your own goal


Yeah, his follow-ups aren't my cup of tea either. I was more interested in the entry.

Apparently it is also taught as an eye jab:

[youtube] https://youtu.be/upkbPcfgboY [/youtube]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/asQ5gtOFZO0 [/youtube]
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:32 pm

Bhassler wrote:It's a great starting point for teaching structure, angles, and using one's body mass to generate force. Once a physical understanding has been developed, then you can start to use moving triangles and mobilize body mass in more complex patterns.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t&v=pF-YAnreZrM[/youtube]



Been following this Brazilian guy's Muay Chaiya channel for years -- good stuff.

Muay Chaiya has some of the coolest defensive techniques against head punches and kicks I've ever seen in traditional Asian fighting arts.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby phil b on Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:31 am

C.J.W. wrote:
Bhassler wrote:It's a great starting point for teaching structure, angles, and using one's body mass to generate force. Once a physical understanding has been developed, then you can start to use moving triangles and mobilize body mass in more complex patterns.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t&v=pF-YAnreZrM[/youtube]



Been following this Brazilian guy's Muay Chaiya channel for years -- good stuff.

Muay Chaiya has some of the coolest defensive techniques against head punches and kicks I've ever seen in traditional Asian fighting arts.


As someone who studies Muay Chaiya, it is nice to see Muay Chaiya getting some love on here.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby C.J.W. on Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:36 am

phil b wrote:As someone who studies Muay Chaiya, it is nice to see Muay Chaiya getting some love on here.


Do you train in Thailand?

I honestly feel that practitioners of TCMA can benefit a great deal from knowing some of Chaiya's defenses against head punches and low kicks, especially those who wish to participate in ring fighting against modern combat sports fighters.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby phil b on Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:27 pm

C.J.W. wrote:
phil b wrote:As someone who studies Muay Chaiya, it is nice to see Muay Chaiya getting some love on here.


Do you train in Thailand?

I honestly feel that practitioners of TCMA can benefit a great deal from knowing some of Chaiya's defenses against head punches and low kicks, especially those who wish to participate in ring fighting against modern combat sports fighters.


I don't train in Thailand, but my teacher did and is authroized by Kru Lek (Baan Chang Thai). Hopefully I will train in Thailand in January, covid restrictions permitting.

The Chaiya defence is described as being like a durian because the elbows and knees are like the spikes. There are a lot of different drills to develop the use of the defence, including various sparring methods. It hurts to be on the wrong end of it.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby GrahamB on Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:53 pm

The Muay Chaiya stuff looks great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t&v=pF-YAnreZrM

To me it looks very similar to the "French Boxing on 4 sides drill":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-YPUqYsrjI

It's started my mind wondering. I think it's already been pretty well established that French Military Boxing influenced Karate, when karate moved to Japan. In particular the high kicks. I wonder if any of French Military Boxing ever got to Thailand?
Last edited by GrahamB on Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby phil b on Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:01 am

GrahamB wrote:The Muay Chaiya stuff looks great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t&v=pF-YAnreZrM

To me it looks very similar to the "French Boxing on 4 sides drill":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-YPUqYsrjI

It's started my mind wondering. I think it's already been pretty well established that French Military Boxing influenced Karate, when karate moved to Japan. In particular the high kicks. I wonder if any of French Military Boxing ever got to Thailand?


The Muay Chaiya link you posted is Kru Pedro Solana. He studied Muay Chaiya under Kru Lek, but has developed his own art of Muay Sangha, which includes Muay Chaiya. His expression of Muay Chaiya is a little different, such as the ground fighting. That is not to take anything away from him. He is an accomplished fighter and student of various arts.

The French influence is doubtful because Muay Chaiya has a verified lineage and history as one of the original Boran arts. Actually, the French drill reminded me of the four corner drill found in some Southern Mantis.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby GrahamB on Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:30 am

Sure - but things can be old with a lineage going back years, and still be influenced by other things. Just like the karate I mentioned. The 1880s-1900s was a time of great expansion for the europeans and in general the leaders of the east wanted to copy their empire building skills.
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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:34 am

Both at 1:49 of the OP video and the Silat video, the feeder is not in a realistic fighting distance, position or angle to punch. Maul Mornie's Silat approach is a little more realistic here.

Even Tony Blauer says about his SPEAR system, in this video, "If you’re trying to spar with the SPEAR system, you’ll probably get you’re a** kicked. If I just try to walk around and try to do this [gestures] against a Thai boxer, boxer or grappler, you’re going to get you’re a** kicked. The SPEAR is a bridge to your complex motor skills."

In this other video, they discuss and demonstrate more realistically two approaches (fight or flight) to a bat or stick attack:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDYYRXAnt7k

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Re: Nice basic applications of WC's triangle principle

Postby Bhassler on Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:38 am

Here's another application of the moving triangle/wedge concept. Wasn't looking for it, just stumbled upon it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab-6LI5 ... ErikHarris
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