Goat riding stance pushing

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Re: Goat riding stance pushing

Postby origami_itto on Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:31 pm

Well as far as the competition goes, I'd rather get pushed out than "win" by breaking from principles. That tends to get boring for certain partners that like the two bulls contending style of play. Ideally I'd push them out while maintaining the principles, which I'd count a true "win". Right now where I'm at in my practice I honestly get the most benefit from single hand circles, if I can find anybody willing to practice them. Let's see that competition instead of the handful of nominal single hand circles before switching to spaghetti arms. :D

So competing against myself, with improvement as the prize, not against some other guy with a judge and a trophy for the prestige of myself or my school. Too much motivation to win by any means at that point. That's how we get so far away from the real skill, IMO.

I'd never really considered the "bow stance" implicit in goat riding stance. I'd thought the angles of the feet were of critical importance there to meet that definition. Functionally, though, yeah I can see that if you're single weighted there, you can get some of the same behavior out of it. It reminds me of when I met up with Dmitri back in like 2008 and he stood on one leg and I couldn't do a thing to knock him over.

What I found worked for me, personally, in this goat riding situation is 1)single weightedness, 2) vertical pushing, not horizontal. If either of those was missing I'd just push myself back off. What I'm seeing in the little bit of the hour long video that I actually watched is that they're each trying to get under the other and whoever is lowest wins, when they double weight on top or bottom and try to push horizontally it just doesn't work.
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Re: Goat riding stance pushing

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:59 pm

wayne hansen wrote:All pushing is competition or it is of no use.

With all due respect, I totally disagree with that opinion. In our SMT System, tui-shou practice is sensitivity training intended to develop 'listening' skill (ting-jin) for more rapid and efficient defensive changes of posture and position in response to an opponent's movements.

In contrast to that agenda, a competition mindset is inevitably focused on winning, and is thus naturally more offense oriented, as witnessed in most push hands event videos, where soft defensive neutralization with simultaneously executed counteroffensive techniques is completely abandoned in favor of forceful, self-initiated attacks to score points in order to win.

While aggressive agenda priorities of that type may win competition matches against others who employ the same mindset and tactics, it generally fails in the presence of a skilled opponent who does not engage that way when seriously fighting anywhere outside a competition venue. :o

You yourself stated on another thread that "The real ability comes from feeling not thinking." I agree with that opinion 100%. 8-)
Last edited by Doc Stier on Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:22 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Goat riding stance pushing

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:50 pm

By competition I don’t mean tournaments
I mean testing and probing for hollows and projections
Just listening and following goes nowhere
Might just as well do form
Bow and arrow stance or hill climbing stance is to do with weight distribution not angles of feet
The trying to get under the opponent is folly
All movement and yielding as well as response should be in accord with your opponents questions
This format should make this happen alas in the clip it does not
It is even worse in the other clip here
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Re: Goat riding stance pushing

Postby Bao on Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:07 am

wayne hansen wrote:It is not about ego but testing like a living Zen Koan


Liked this very much. 8-)

I prefer push hands as a free yet semi-cooperative game. You will put your opponent into different awkward positions or situations, but then you should help each other how to solve the problem, or how not to get into that position. If both try to understand why you get trapped and how to solve the problems, regardless who gets trapped, or regardless who puts the other in an awkward position, both will benefit more from the practice and Ego can be thrown out of the window. If you really do it together, then it will always become very evident that Ego or boasting won't help you to play the game.
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Re: Goat riding stance pushing

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:54 am

Couldn’t agree more
There are structural pushing sets to help the body to develop along correct lines
Ones to develop certain skills
Ones for competitive play
Ones to teach combat
We have over 100 sets in our school
They can go from light and fun to near combat
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