Meeting with Power -Yang Sau Cheung

[windwalker]

NONE and I will repeat again NONE of this works on even the slightest resistance by any trained individual.
I went around Taiwan and no one could make any of this work on me. Not even once.

thats "your" experience

Others including myself have different ones.
How its used is very different than the way its trained and demoed,
in this would agree it can be kind of misleading...

NONE of this works on even the slightest resistance by any trained individual.

Not really a logical statement considering many people training from other styles with many years of training behind them
often end up training with the teachers after feeling something different at work..

Met teacher Lin, and his group awhile back...
thought his training was ok..

Interesting enough in interaction with some of his group off line,
was able to affect them as he did...It surprised them.

Might be worthwhile for those to consider the theory by which it said to work.
All the teachers I've met and research done they all used a very similar theory or the same.

If you aren't in their cult, none of this stuff works and they have to resort to other measures. In the case of the 228 Park group in the top clip, they have guys that also do white crane and compete in moving step push hands that can address anyone that refuses to be led around by the hoppy nonsense.

Always interesting reading .

Are taiji people also in a "cult" seeing as none of their stuff works in a public ring.

When I was there I pushed with a couple of people, who found they couldn't do much with me.
They then invited me to push with one of their senior group leaders.
He started out very soft, and suddenly resorted to using a quick pull.
Which also didn't work..

I smiled, complemented him in the group on the skill and stopped not wanting to make the group leader lose face...

Regarding push hands, consider it a training device, to develop, demo, or allow others to feel different skill sets...with out getting injured in the process.
Not a fan of using it as a measurement tool or some type of competition.

never get the animosity towards it considering all the threads on qi gong the current thread on "shen". ect...

It's all good in reading about it,,,until what is shown that people freely write about...

when its shown they start to lose their minds....

[Formosa Neijia]

thats "your" experience
Others including myself have different ones.
How its used is very different than the way its trained and demoed,
in this would agree it can be kind of misleading...

Yes, it was my experience which I trust a lot more than other people's opinions and theories. What is demoed in all these clips is of little practical use but don't think that I too didn't go down the rabbit hole because I did at one point. I wanted to do that training for the experience and I spent a lot of time building and manipulating qi. And I understand "bouncing people out" based on the qi practice. But after i went through that, I found it had serious limitations and "opening" yourself up to that kind of manipulation has serious consequences in several different areas, which can lead to Guen-type issues. I put it behind me, where it belonged.

When I was there I pushed with a couple of people, who found they couldn't do much with me.
They then invited me to push with one of their senior group leaders.
He started out very soft, and suddenly resorted to using a quick pull.
Which also didn't work..
I smiled, complemented him in the group on the skill and stopped not wanting to make the group leader lose face...never get the animosity towards it considering all the threads on qi gong the current thread on "shen". ect...

So your experience was just like mine. I'm glad you put that out there but I'm not surprised because anyone that learned from David Chin out of Fayetteville. NC would be a force to be reckoned with. All of his students that I met were solid. Do you have the "hop gar forearms" they are known for?

The threads on shen, etc. aren't worth commenting on. It's people just asking to be manipulated by some cult-leader. I've seen the negative consequences of this too many times. Example, a friend of the family hooked up with one of these qigong cults in Taipei and one morning several months into it, they found him wandering the highway half-way to Danshui in a blind stupor at 2am.

Foreigners in general aren't too bright about all this because they view all of this stuff through rose-colored (perhaps i should say "taoist-tinted") glasses and don't read the stories in Chinese of people getting sucked into this nonsense and what it does to their lives.

[windwalker]

All of his students that I met were solid. Do you have the "hop gar forearms" they are known for?

My study was in Tibetan White Crane, taught by Mike Staples
https://journeytoemptiness.com/2017/06/23/mike-staples/

student of Gorge long...
Mike would later go on to study with Shifu David Chin...
Hop Gar sometimes considered as a sister style.

In answer to your question, yes I did at one time,,,Used to use a weight bar among other things, tossing it up in the air and catching it with the nap of the elbows and letting it roll down the arm.. The idea was to deaden the nerves from impact and toughen the bone.

Totally opposite of developing "ting jin".

Actually broke some of my sparring partners forearms, from other styles a couple of times when I was sparring with at the time.
Not purposely, just in the course of things. They would stop after a sharp pain felt by our colliding arms,
next day after ex rays,,,found to have hair line fractures.

We also had what was called "burning hand" another show stopper if one was hit with it...

Developing that type of arm is counter to the work I do now...

Used to talk with Chin, Shifu "David Chin" on the phone a lot prior to his sudden death...
The stories he had...https://journeytoemptiness.com/2020/10/ ... avid-chin/

He also wasn't to keen on some of the things I had experienced, never pressed the issue with him...
but did find it humorous, in that he believed in and practiced a lot of "qi" gong type work..
Working with something "qi" as of yet unproven by the west...


Ben Lo, a noted taiji teacher I had the pleasure of practicing with and talking with him . Also didn't much care for some of the aspects that people mention concerning "kong jin"

This was before meeting my last teacher in Beijing...

After meeting with him, stayed with him and his group for some 10yrs,,,another 10yrs working out what I had been working on with him and the group..

My point is that for me, and others that I know while still being skeptical, there comes a time when one has to abandon what they know,
what they think they know, in order to come to some type of understanding with what they do not.

Those I know or knew quite serious in their practice, watching them interact with Zhang Shifu, it did look like it was fake...until you got a chance to work with them...and felt the type of power they had,,it never made much sense ...

Until one got a chance to interact with Zhang, Shifu....those looking on might think it was fake....

It was that different....

For. me its always been part of a process. whether touched or not what made it work was the same...

This posted in another thread
https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php ... 9&start=60

This happened a while back with a visiting friend who taught taiji and his student "Bill" a big Hawaiian guy retired policeman from Hawaii.
They had come to visit...Bill was a little skeptical of what he was seeing..

This account written by one his local students translated from Chinese.

He let Bill stand beside the pine tree next to the iron fence , about 5 meters awar from him. I was next to Bill, Master Zhang, asked me to put my left hand on bills right chest.

He drew a circle on BILL's chest with one hand, and my left hand felt like it was circled by hot electric current, but I was fine. BILL frowned on the chest. Later, the old man rubbed it for him and said that he would sleep all night. I asked him the next day, and he said it didn't hurt anymore. This is Mr. Zhang's famous emptiness, passing energy from the air.


Bill, almost passed out during the demo, I guess he was trying to resist what he felt happening.

Only sharing some experience.

One of the students seeing me, spoke in English introducing himself and then me to his teacher. The same student who could speak English suggested me and his teacher, touch hands, a friendly test and comparison of taiji skill sets.

Teacher Chen, agreed smiling in his warm friendly way.

When we touched hands both of us did not move, able to sense each others movements inside. Understanding this, we both laughed and broke contact. His students quite surprised and mystified as to what happened when there was no outer movement.

https://journeytoemptiness.com/2021/02/ ... n-weihong/

one of the teachers I interacted with....long ago...good guy...

The teachers and people in Taiwan were very kind, and open...
quite serious and hard-working in their approaches to MA study...

wanting to get back there,,,due to the virus stuff,,,its a little hard...even being resident....
They still got the quarantine set up.

[wayne hansen]

Not a bad sword form

https://youtu.be/yK_O3uDqQRo

[shenxinhei]

Don't know where the "Cartmell's "full-contact taiji teacher came from", as even 25 years ago Lin A Long always loved to hold court and show off the grandiose silly side of pushhands. Back then he was somewhat of an an enigma in that he actually had excellent skills at push hands and even had some very useful concepts applicable to more functional martial application, but it took literally hours to drag the useful stuff out of him in between all the nonsense. No full contact in sight, but had much to share nonetheless if one had the patience to dig for it. Fortunately, Tim has the amazing ability to wade through the mud and use his mindsuck magic to dig out the little nuggets of platinum in there.

I usually don't participate much but this is the most fascinating thread for me. I've been wondering what happened to Michael G and a few years back read about the sordid stuff which kind of answered some lingering questions but at the same time he had some interesting skills. Unfortunately, character and ability are often mutually exclusive when it comes to martial arts. I had to sign up for his group anyway cause I'm an f-ing sucker. LOL. But I'm 99% certain there will be that be that upsell later. However, the Yang Shou Zhong style of pushing hands is so diametrically opposed to how most approach taijiquan that I have to scratch that itch and see if he gives any real insight as back in the day when I did participate in it, it just seemed weird that some people were hopping around like birds or spinning like whirlibirds.

[cloudz]

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2018/guen112018.htm

https://casetext.com/case/guen-v-pereira

https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?p=425247&sid=12e726e3274fc740f4d47915ce296ad8

damn dude!!

I just realised I have come across this guy (on the webz) before.
soon as i opened that first link it came flooding back.

sheeeet. not cool

thanks for those Tom

[windwalker]

@Formosa Neijia


The white crane you mentioned taught in Taiwan is quite different from what is sometimes referred as Tibetan White Crane, practiced long ago..

Ron Dong Shifu, another student of Gorge Long, coaching a sparring class.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3xO5RgcMIU&t=12s

Tibetan White Crane


https://journeytoemptiness.com/2020/05/09/white-crane/

[wayne hansen]

Lama lama is a good system but has little to offer real tai chi

[windwalker]

Lama lama is a good system but has little to offer real tai chi

What is "real taiji"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQ_wdL4QB0

[Doc Stier]

I initially posted these comments on another thread, but it is also equally relevant here as well.

This thread and other similar thread topics, although interesting from a historical development perspective, often become a debate over which lineage is the best among many variations of the style.

Having now known and observed teachers of different lineages for more than half a century to date, it seems clear to me that the benchmark of excellence has less to do with a particular stylistic interpretation of form practice, the sequential list of postures in a specific form or the transitional movements between them, but has more to do with proper adherence to what is generally accepted as the correct principles of the style, and the degree of personal commitment to serious training by individual practitioners in any given lineage.

When these factors are clearly evident, the skills and benefits derived from the practice are usually obvious. Over the course of a lifetime of training, it's not difficult to observe who has achieved and maintained excellent physical health and fitness, excellent athletic performance capability, excellent internal cultivation, and excellent martial applications skill, even though individual practitioners may focus on some of these outcomes more than they do on others.

Although it may well be true that the signature training methods of some lineages are capable of producing these results more quickly than other lineages apparently do, all authentic lineages have nonetheless produced high level practitioners in virtually every generation.

As such, it seems to me that any differences in form sequence or the stylistic interpretation of form performance, differences in the transitional movements between the named and numbered form postures, and so forth, are ultimately moot points when unbroken principles are evident in the movements of any form and the training material is practiced seriously with the goal of constantly improving personal skills and benefits.

The most important question for each of us to ask ourselves is thus simply whether or not we are practicing whatever lineage we prefer in a way that will tap its greatest potential to produce our own personal skills and benefits

[everything]

Was wondering if an upsell was coming, you know, now buy my course type thing.

looks like it's started. buy one course, then buy the "advanced" course.

[cloudz]

yup, seen that today.. he was giving a totally different vibe in the early videos if you ask me. the old bait and switcheroo, he played it oh so smoooth.