Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Appledog on Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:21 am

origami_itto wrote:So.. what is it that you think she's doing and what do you think she is doing incorrectly?


This is just for demos. Real push hands is about teaching people and learning, so you never get these immediate throws -- unless, I suppose, the skill difference is so great that the teachewr wants to say you're not ready yet without saying so outright. What was the word you used? non-cooperative? Even so I think that this somehow misses the point of what I don't like about this, but maybe that's just me.

origami_itto wrote:Now the caveat is the other guy. I think the early phases of the HME training definitely make you easy to throw around if you don't know what you're doing or don't follow instructions. I guess? I dunno I got a lot out of the system but YMMV. I touched a kid from Alabama at the retreat with I think like 6 months of study in the system, and he was just a perfect little throwing partner. Just unified enough to help me get his whole body easily and pretty much make him do whatever I wanted with a finger. He was a little better after the five minute foundations tune-up but still. Anybody watching us would have thought I was Adam Mizner himself.


I wish I could have seen it! I need to get out more.

origami_itto wrote:So I'm sure this dude is just giving her what she needs to make it work. Makes it easier to look good. But I wouldn't dismiss her as having no skill.


Perhaps this is the aji I am feeling. I just have this feeling something is not right here.
Appledog
Wuji
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:49 am

Appledog wrote:I need to get out more.


This is what it's all about. Unless you're getting out and pushing with people outside your school it's all theoretical. You're binding the cat.

Any time, any where, any body, let's fucking do this.
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
"What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Have Peng, Will Travel.
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby everything on Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:15 am

if I can barely strike a golf ball, am I supposed to handle the pressure of playing vs. Tiger Woods at the Masters in only a few years?

if I can throw a punch or sink qi, can I go take on prime Fedor on NYE?
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Formosa Neijia on Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:07 am

Appledog wrote:Yeah I thought everyone would see through this one right away. Oh well?

This thread and the other one where the guy was asking for a critique of his "skills" was very eye-opening as it shows most people aren't only barking up the wrong tree, they don't even know where the forest is.
Consider:
wayne hansen wrote:Yes those kids have skill but I don’t see the connection

Exactly, you can't see it. Those kids in the karate clip show real results from a solid physical basic training program and they are able to generate power, speed, and control after only a few short years. Imagine what they will look like at the age of 16.
Now compare them to vegan girl and man-bun boy: they have nothing, and I mean absolutely ZERO in the way of physical preparation skills evident in their "movement."
And even worse, they NEVER WILL have anything considering the way they are training. Case in point:
origami_itto wrote:Now the caveat is the other guy. I think the early phases of the HME training definitely make you easy to throw around if you don't know what you're doing or don't follow instructions. I guess? ... I touched a kid from Alabama at the retreat with I think like 6 months of study in the system, and he was just a perfect little throwing partner. Just unified enough to help me get his whole body easily and pretty much make him do whatever I wanted with a finger. He was a little better after the five minute foundations tune-up but still. Anybody watching us would have thought I was Adam Mizner himself.

The physical reactions these cult-followers (both the guy and the girl in the clip) are learning make them EASIER than normal people to defeat and Origami admits it even though he will likely never have the insight or the guts to challenge the paradigm, as few people do. The longer these brainlets continue this crap, the further off they will be, resulting in the travesty of that thread where the guy asked for feedback. The only thing that guy should have been told is drop everything and run to the nearest MMA school.
Appledog wrote:I need to get out more.

Perhaps or perhaps you don't. Getting out may destroy your faith in humanity when you see absolute nonsense pedaled as "high level material" while real training gains no traction.
Basically vegan girl and man-bun boy need to be punched in the mouth a few times in the course of their training. Nothing like tasting your own blood to wake you up to reality.
Last edited by Formosa Neijia on Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Formosa Neijia
Great Old One
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:10 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:45 pm

Those karate kids are most likely at their peak now
I don’t see much kata done better than that
If you know of any pleases show me
MHE only go further down the rabbit hole the more they train
My teacher was training Aikido when I first met him
He would often show me what he had in relation to tai chi
He was also a street fighter
He ran into a guy we called cosmic Ken who he trained with at very combat Aikido school
He had gone to a very KI oriented school
He had given away all thoughts of combat
My teacher asked what happens if you get into a fight
He replied if your KI is strong enough no one will ever attack you
Knowing my teacher I said why didn’t you punch him in the face
His answer
It was not my duty to educate him
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 4421
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:50 pm

Formosa Neijia wrote: t
The physical reactions these cult-followers (both the guy and the girl in the clip) are learning make them EASIER than normal people to defeat and Origami admits it even though he will likely never have the insight or the guts to challenge the paradigm, as few people do. The longer these brainlets continue this crap, the further off they will be, resulting in the travesty of that thread where the guy asked for feedback. The only thing that guy should have been told is drop everything and run to the nearest MMA school.


You know... I do what works. I train, I test, I adjust my approach, ad infinitum.

The HME material is just one part of my program, though I appreciate how concerned you are about it. I've gotten all I'm going to get out of Adam Mizner at this point.

One thing you simply seem incapable of understanding is that I train Yang Style Taijiquan.

Not Chen family boxing, not praying mantis, not hung gar, not MMA. Taijiquan and push hands.

I would relish the opportunity to learn from you by playing push hands and feeling first had the superiority of your training methods for the task.

Until then I'm going to keep doing what has been delivering steady and progressive results for years. The fact that it makes you cry is just gravy.

(@)
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
"What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Have Peng, Will Travel.
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Appledog on Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:43 pm

origami_itto wrote:One thing you simply seem incapable of understanding is that I train Yang Style Taijiquan.

Not Chen family boxing, not praying mantis, not hung gar, not MMA. Taijiquan and push hands.

I would relish the opportunity to learn from you by playing push hands and feeling first had the superiority of your training methods for the task.

Until then I'm going to keep doing what has been delivering steady and progressive results for years. The fact that it makes you cry is just gravy.


The push hands in chen family boxing is exactly the same as the push hands in yang style taijiquan (from what I have seen) except that they have a few more types of push hands. Wu style is the same too except they seem to have many more types as well (and somewhat different than chen style).

But in any case if we are talking about the basic kinds of push hands, for me it's less about what you can do than if you know how to share it. For me, while getting tossed around endlessly has value (invest in loss, sure,) I liken it to trying to learn the form by following along in a park or community center. Been there, done that. I prefer a different kind of instruction now. It's not 'non-competitive' push hands, it's competitive push hands in a non-competitive way. Not sure if that makes sense. Where the teacher is careful not to overwhelm you and can actually lead you in a manner of speaking. I actually think it is more efficient. I also realize that it requires a special relationship between the players who trust each other and understand "the rules" and when ego and competitiveness become involved it can be less about learning and more about getting one in on the opponent.

I've actually pushed hands with someone who literally just did karate in the guise of tai chi (lets just say he had a very interesting form), and after punching me in the stomach he didn't want to play anymore because I was beneath him. I am not complaining about the karate. If I complain then I am saying that my tai chi cannot even beat his karate in the guise of tai chi. Meaning that my tai chi cannot even beat real tai chi in push hands. It makes me feel down because it is difficult to find someone who will play in the manner I want them to, superior or not. It is my dream someday to be able to handle all sorts of attacks in a peaceful manner so that I can bring this kind of friendship, sharing and trust to push hands players everywhere.
Last edited by Appledog on Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Appledog
Wuji
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Appledog on Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:02 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Those karate kids are most likely at their peak now
I don’t see much kata done better than that
If you know of any pleases show me


Well there's always this...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lboakZAR5n0
Appledog
Wuji
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:44 pm

Appledog wrote:
origami_itto wrote:One thing you simply seem incapable of understanding is that I train Yang Style Taijiquan.

Not Chen family boxing, not praying mantis, not hung gar, not MMA. Taijiquan and push hands.

I would relish the opportunity to learn from you by playing push hands and feeling first had the superiority of your training methods for the task.

Until then I'm going to keep doing what has been delivering steady and progressive results for years. The fact that it makes you cry is just gravy.


The push hands in chen family boxing is exactly the same as the push hands in yang style taijiquan (from what I have seen) except that they have a few more types of push hands. Wu style is the same too except they seem to have many more types as well (and somewhat different than chen style).

But in any case if we are talking about the basic kinds of push hands, for me it's less about what you can do than if you know how to share it. For me, while getting tossed around endlessly has value (invest in loss, sure,) I liken it to trying to learn the form by following along in a park or community center. Been there, done that. I prefer a different kind of instruction now. It's not 'non-competitive' push hands, it's competitive push hands in a non-competitive way. Not sure if that makes sense. Where the teacher is careful not to overwhelm you and can actually lead you in a manner of speaking. I actually think it is more efficient. I also realize that it requires a special relationship between the players who trust each other and understand "the rules" and when ego and competitiveness become involved it can be less about learning and more about getting one in on the opponent.

I've actually pushed hands with someone who literally just did karate in the guise of tai chi (lets just say he had a very interesting form), and after punching me in the stomach he didn't want to play anymore because I was beneath him. I am not complaining about the karate. If I complain then I am saying that my tai chi cannot even beat his karate in the guise of tai chi. Meaning that my tai chi cannot even beat real tai chi in push hands. It makes me feel down because it is difficult to find someone who will play in the manner I want them to, superior or not. It is my dream someday to be able to handle all sorts of attacks in a peaceful manner so that I can bring this kind of friendship, sharing and trust to push hands players everywhere.


Once again, lol.

The outer shape and pattern is meaningless.

Chen family boxing may have inspired Yang Taijiquan, but they are different things. Everybody wants to conflate everything as if you can just train one way and do it all. Despite what they tell us about being off by a millimeter at the start leading to being miles off track as you progress. All kind of ideas backfilled into the systems and compared against the inferior arts that are easier to understand. The path is an inch wide and a mile deep. You don't get there studying fifty different systems.

Chen is great, and you can find decent Chen pretty much everywhere. I just don't generally find it to be what I'm looking for. There's only been one Chen player I've ever touched where I felt like I should follow up and try to learn a few things from them, and that was due to their softness, which Chen players tend to lack.

As far as training partners, I don't care. They can bring whatever they want to bring and I will either deal with it with Taijiquan or I will be pushed. I tend to frustrate the aggressive folks because I don't fight back enough for them. I don't care. I want clean Jin. Pushing someone is a secondary concern.

Generally, they will follow my lead and we have a productive time. I have found this to be the case in every opportunity I have had to push. Just get out there, pick a place to be consistently and start telling people you'll be there. Hold the space and collect the stragglers and eventually you'll have a thriving community of pushers.

The freestyle skills are built on the cooperative drills, and playing those drills non-cooperatively. Sure you can keep a pattern, sure you can surprise someone with a technique, but can you apply a jin to someone who knows it is coming and knows how to counter it? Can you do it slowly and methodically without trying to catch them by surprise? That's the real skill building. It's hard to find somebody willing to do the "boring" work, but come to Florida, bro, we will do single hand circles all weekend and you'll love it.

Or spend the $200 and fly down to Tampa in November. Or Melbourne, FL any time, I can put you up for the weekend and we'll train. That's a standing offer to anybody who wants to come down. I won't pay your way but I'll take care of you while you're here.

Because that's what the fuck I'm about. Not being rude to people comparing notes, not trying to convince people they're wrong and I'm right, it all comes down to what's between our hands. You're better, fantastic, teach me something. I'm better, okay I guess I'll drop some knowledge. All the playground bullshit just reeks of insecurity.

I dunno I'm rambling again. For real, come visit. We'll train, visit the finest restaurants, I can introduce you to a lovely young lady or two, it'll be fun.
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
"What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Have Peng, Will Travel.
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:24 pm

The Karate is more advanced and very quick but nothing I haven’t seen before
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 4421
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby everything on Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:08 pm

hey origami_itto, whenever I actually re-progress to push hands (not being sarcastic ... I started over so things won't be "hollow"), I'll try to visit. sorry if it takes a long time. I'm not at the level of the woman in the first vid ww posted (where she's clearly trying to learn with some cooperative help), so who knows how long it takes to get even there. I'm only interested in "clean Jin" as well. other things are interesting enough, sure. just not intriguing or fascinating in the same way. I'll never understand why on an "IMA" board, people aren't interested in "IMA". I'm sure there are interesting karate boards or whatever.
Last edited by everything on Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Formosa Neijia on Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:23 am

everything wrote: I'm only interested in "clean Jin" ... I'll never understand why on an "IMA" board, people aren't interested in "IMA". I'm sure there are interesting karate boards or whatever.

Time to put the QUAN back in taijiQUAN. Time to put the YANG back in YANG style taiji.
Some of us are tired of hearing the limp-wristed pansy side of IMA that produces the hip-hopping bunnies sit in judgement of anything remotely martial. face it: the taichi hippies feel themselves martially and morally superior in every way to karate and even other styles of kungfu, heck even other styles of taichi that aren't wimpy. And what's in OP's video is the result: a vast waste of life energy that not only is in no way superior, it's utterly useless. I used the karate clip to shame people because those kids are doing things the taichi hippies will never be able to do after just a few short years of training.
Let's watch splodey heads go splode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iw4xFD-47Q
Straight up taichi and more martial than ANYTHING coming out of the normal taiji community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huiT38HNClA
This shouldn't be secret training, this should be basics. Taiji people are not special snowflakes. Their lazy butts need to learn how to punch, kick, block, and do stance work just like everyone else.
Time to put the QUAN back in taijiQUAN. Time to put the YANG back in YANG style taiji.
User avatar
Formosa Neijia
Great Old One
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:10 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:54 am

Formosa Neijia wrote:
everything wrote: I'm only interested in "clean Jin" ... I'll never understand why on an "IMA" board, people aren't interested in "IMA". I'm sure there are interesting karate boards or whatever.

Time to put the QUAN back in taijiQUAN. Time to put the YANG back in YANG style taiji.
Some of us are tired of hearing the limp-wristed pansy side of IMA that produces the hip-hopping bunnies sit in judgement of anything remotely martial. face it: the taichi hippies feel themselves martially and morally superior in every way to karate and even other styles of kungfu, heck even other styles of taichi that aren't wimpy. And what's in OP's video is the result: a vast waste of life energy that not only is in no way superior, it's utterly useless. I used the karate clip to shame people because those kids are doing things the taichi hippies will never be able to do after just a few short years of training.
Let's watch splodey heads go splode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iw4xFD-47Q
Straight up taichi and more martial than ANYTHING coming out of the normal taiji community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huiT38HNClA
This shouldn't be secret training, this should be basics. Taiji people are not special snowflakes. Their lazy butts need to learn how to punch, kick, block, and do stance work just like everyone else.

Come on out to Tampa this November. Would love to compare notes.
https://events.com/r/en_US/tickets/tbma ... ber-834182
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
"What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Have Peng, Will Travel.
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:57 am

I mean holy shit, going to Master Wong for credibility about Taijiquan for combat?
Image
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
"What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Have Peng, Will Travel.
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby windwalker on Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:00 am

Formosa Neijia wrote:
everything wrote: I'm only interested in "clean Jin" ... I'll never understand why on an "IMA" board, people aren't interested in "IMA". I'm sure there are interesting karate boards or whatever.

Time to put the QUAN back in taijiQUAN. Time to put the YANG back in YANG style taiji.
Some of us are tired of hearing the limp-wristed pansy side of IMA that produces the hip-hopping bunnies sit in judgement of anything remotely martial. face it: the taichi hippies feel themselves martially and morally superior in every way to karate and even other styles of kungfu, heck even other styles of taichi that aren't wimpy. And what's in OP's video is the result: a vast waste of life energy that not only is in no way superior, it's utterly useless. I used the karate clip to shame people because those kids are doing things the taichi hippies will never be able to do after just a few short years of training.
Let's watch splodey heads go splode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iw4xFD-47Q
Straight up taichi and more martial than ANYTHING coming out of the normal taiji community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huiT38HNClA
This shouldn't be secret training, this should be basics. Taiji people are not special snowflakes. Their lazy butts need to learn how to punch, kick, block, and do stance work just like everyone else.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6R9tPie9qA

Have you been down to peace park, letting this teacher know he's got it wrong ?
If you cannot find the truth right where you are,
where else do you expect to find it?

Dogan
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 9362
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests