Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Formosa Neijia on Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:54 am

Bhassler wrote:So there are "sides" now in taijiquan?
That sort of thinking (such as it is) is a big part of the reason there's so little meaningful conversation about, well, anything, really. People seem to love to group in their political mega-tribes and point to the barking moonbats on the opposite extreme as representative of why the "other side" is a bunch of idiots. It leaves very little room for nuance, and without nuance there's not really much conversation, mostly just people shouting off rooftops into the abyss.


Nuance died here by at least 2010, if not earlier. None of the big dogs that used to post here do any more. Ever wonder why? Ask one of them.
When I say that someone is not only faking a demo but that he's rubbing people's nose in it by teaching 4-5 year olds how to do it in a 2 hour seminar and the response is "so what, who cares?" then we're not on the same side. AT ALL. We're not doing the same thing and I have nothing in common with those defending this crap. How on earth you could think otherwise is really beyond me.

I'll say it again: vegan girl and man-bun boy are a travesty, as are all those defending them. Strip-mall karate is better than what they are doing.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Formosa Neijia on Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:58 am

wayne hansen wrote:I’m sure I saw him also doing some Hung Gar when he first started posting
I know he does white crane but I think he got that from Huang H H later
I like the way the term Tai Chi Hippies is used
I am one of those but I take my tai chi and it’s application a lot more seriously than many
Teaching tai chi openly in the 70’s invited plenty of challenges from every martial art
We fought on a regular basis with kykoshinkai when Dolf (then Hans) Lundergren was a student
Some of their best fighters became my students


Wayne is correct. He did hongquan (hung gar) before white crane. Back in the 70s and 80s was a different world. I still remember it. We don't produce people like that anymore and we haven't for a very long time. The nonsense in this thread is most of the reason why.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:15 am

Formosa Neijia wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:I’m sure I saw him also doing some Hung Gar when he first started posting
I know he does white crane but I think he got that from Huang H H later
I like the way the term Tai Chi Hippies is used
I am one of those but I take my tai chi and it’s application a lot more seriously than many
Teaching tai chi openly in the 70’s invited plenty of challenges from every martial art
We fought on a regular basis with kykoshinkai when Dolf (then Hans) Lundergren was a student
Some of their best fighters became my students


Wayne is correct. He did hongquan (hung gar) before white crane.

Back in the 70s and 80s was a different world. I still remember it. We don't produce people like that anymore and we haven't for a very long time. The nonsense in this thread is most of the reason why.


The 70s ?

You grew up in the 70s.

If you did, you might remember that CMA wasn't doing to well back then in the full contact matches of the day...
Those that did compete looked like all others in the ring....

As to taking challenges, among different styles....
Many did this back then, few able to retain the essences of their art in doing so..

A major problem for most CMA practitioners of the time, in "public" events

Remaining so until this time...
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:33 am

Speaking solely for myself, I've never had any desire to engage in full contact competition fighting, but I've faced more challengers than I can count since I began teaching professionally in 1973, as well as numerous opponents in a variety of serious street fighting encounters, very quickly and efficiently in each instance.

That's all the validation I need. As such, I don't consider participation in any type of competitive sport fighting venue with a ruleset to be the benchmark standard for probable fighting proficiency in realtime self-defense scenarios. ymmv.
Last edited by Doc Stier on Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:57 am

Doc Stier wrote:Speaking solely for myself, I've never had any desire to engage in full contact competition fighting, but I've faced more challengers than I can count since I began teaching professionally in 1973, as well as numerous opponents in a variety of serious street fighting encounters, very quickly and efficiently in each instance.

That's all the validation I need. As such, I don't consider participation in any type of competitive sport fighting venue with a ruleset to be the benchmark standard for probable fighting proficiency in realtime self-defense scenarios. ymmv.


Echos my some of own experiences with others, although have worked as a "sparring partner" for others entering public matches..
Some people I knew who boxed, very interested in push hands practice and concepts seeing in it analogies to something that might help them in the clinch
If one is not training for the ring, stepping into one without doing so not a good idea... :P

If one does not consider competitive sport fighting venues as a yard stick to measure by , something that was used historcaly.

Why do so many use them to show fails of so called CMA proponents ?

Why do many in the CMA world also use them to them validate their styles...

gen questions
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:43 am

I mean, Lei Tai matches were very often without rules and fought to the death. Sometimes including weapons.

How much of that do you really need to do?

Controlled sparring and investing in loss. Amp it up as you can safely. Hope that's enough when you need it.

Try not to need it.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby everything on Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:49 am

I think we’re all kicking a straw man.

Doubt anyone now wants:
- a real life or death or limb fight
- sport fight after certain age range
Despite past experiences (unfortunately some of you had much more serious incidents but luckily were fine).

But some kind of “pressure” is needed.

Unfortunately for me 4oz can only take on 5oz.

We can laugh at that, I don’t mind! It’s where I’m at.

Me hitting a golf ball is far funnier.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Quigga on Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:23 pm

The beauty with actually threatening fights is that you have the choice not to hold back

From a Wu De and keeping yourself out of prison, your family fed perspective, not very clever

But the rush is something else
All the possibilities

I had some close calls where I might've gone for it but chose to rather get slapped in the face and called various names than to abuse it

Sometimes just standing your ground is enough to deter wannabes

And yet I almost completely understand combat vets who feel the greatest peace of mind during active weaponized combat with bullets flying past their head, everything slowed down and peaceful - their words not mine
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Appledog on Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:20 pm

Formosa Neijia wrote:
Bhassler wrote:So there are "sides" now in taijiquan?
That sort of thinking (such as it is) is a big part of the reason there's so little meaningful conversation about, well, anything, really. People seem to love to group in their political mega-tribes and point to the barking moonbats on the opposite extreme as representative of why the "other side" is a bunch of idiots. It leaves very little room for nuance, and without nuance there's not really much conversation, mostly just people shouting off rooftops into the abyss.


Nuance died here by at least 2010, if not earlier. None of the big dogs that used to post here do any more. Ever wonder why? Ask one of them.
When I say that someone is not only faking a demo but that he's rubbing people's nose in it by teaching 4-5 year olds how to do it in a 2 hour seminar and the response is "so what, who cares?" then we're not on the same side. AT ALL. We're not doing the same thing and I have nothing in common with those defending this crap. How on earth you could think otherwise is really beyond me.

I'll say it again: vegan girl and man-bun boy are a travesty, as are all those defending them. Strip-mall karate is better than what they are doing.


One reason people don't post here is because the older generation doesn't post here and when things get back to the older generation they instruct their students not to post here.

I think it's ok to post here though, to meet people maybe. But the real discussions should occur over tea. So the caveat is, if someone can't make it to the tea party then they can't drink the tea.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:19 pm

So did the whole older generation tell you not to post here
In some circles I am considered part of that cohort
I wonder who they could be
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Appledog on Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:16 am

wayne hansen wrote:So did the whole older generation tell you not to post here
In some circles I am considered part of that cohort
I wonder who they could be


I didn't say that I was told not to post here, I said this is what sometimes happens in general.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Quigga on Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:56 am

Nah nah nah
Nah nah
I can't hear a word you're saying

Feeling censored is way better than feeling physically beaten or actually persecuted

Until then feel free to speak your mind

Of course if you poke the bee's nest they will sting
But become friends and you get honey
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby origami_itto on Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:54 am

Quigga wrote:The beauty with actually threatening fights is that you have the choice not to hold back


I don't know about that, I really don't like to hurt people. I've haven't punched a person full strength since high school and I tend to lay them down gently on "throws"

If I didn't hold back with somebody I don't know that I would be okay with myself afterwards. I mean I know I could survive but I would be thinking about it for a while.

I mean I can look back at pretty much every fight I've been in and replay it. There are some things I did in high school that I had to write a novela to process. There's shit I don't want to stuff any more of into my brain box.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby everything on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:26 am

which is why everything comes down to either for:
- art
- fun

yeah sure, everyone should have some "self defense" and "emergency preparedness" skills, but those are gigantic topics. financial literacy, not falling, etc., are way farther up the list for anyone i know with half a brain or anyone i'd advise with half a brain. not meat-head stuff.

sure it's fun to ask if someone could defeat Prime Fedor (the answer is "no") by training xyz. but that falls in the "fun" part. it's also sort of middle school "cat vs. snake" hypotheticals or "would you rather eat a spider or a cricket" kinds of discussions. but stupid arguments are .... well, stupid.

which really means it just comes down to "art". if you want to go farther and say "one with the universe", in some sense, all art heads in that direction, so "art" is good enough.
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Re: Kristin Nieger Push Hands Video

Postby Quigga on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:58 am

Origami,

When it comes to the situation we are thinking about
There is pleasure derived in having power over other people
Along with your system going 200% very shortly, this doesn't mean upset emotions or rigid calmness
Both can occur and mixing the two is the best
Anyway, I know of people who have gone this route
It is not good for your heart

In active engagement one can be ruthless, but there are rules of choosing confrontation

Subduing a person and interrogation is where it gets nasty

Or children tricking and then shooting you
Or being responsible for collateral damage, women and children
Extractions I've heard is a term

Long story short
What do you think animal styles are about
Especially tiger and ape - I don't know that many more lol
But the ability to connect reigns supreme
Connect to a sphere of power or influence and let it flow through you to come into being

Some call evocation or exocation, whether inside or outside the body

I haven't really tried differentiating the two yet in my practice but I think there is lots to be discovered

The usual info about responsibility applies. Fuck up and get fucked up simple as that
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