the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYbPm-64aA


An interesting clip...

The teacher mentions the differences between traditional neijiaquan versus western practices

Thoughts ? ..

It’s good. Could have a settled a lot of arguments over the years

Every fighter, regardless of their style, system, or combat strategy, requires a properly aligned physical structure, a balanced fighting stance and a stabile center of gravity in order to effectively employ their fighting techniques, both defensively and offensively.

Thus, even the most skilled in any method will find it either very difficult or impossible to apply their skills when their stability and balance has been compromised. As stated several times in the video, they will be momentarily vulnerable to counterattacks at that time, and oftentimes unable to regain good balance and stability before being defeated.

As such, the ability to quickly displace an opponent's center of gravity, thereby disrupting their balance and stability, is far more valuable, imo, than bouncing them out unharmed or attempting to win a contest of comparable speed and power without destabilizing them.

Of course, all of those factors are only relevant when we are consistently able to maintain control of our own structure, our own center of gravity, and our own balance throughout any fighting encounter.

What I'm more interested in is....what is the purpose of that room? I can't make it out. Is that toilet paper on the right there? There's an over head projector... but what's that little cubicle at the back? Is this a doctor's office?

These are the real issues...

If I were to guess I'd say it's a studio apartment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYDqKE6eCU8

Interesting clip in that he uses an analogy, language in talking about cultural differences
when viewing Chinese martial arts versus western.

Often a subject here, trying to rectify cultural differences of a physical art representing the culture it's from.


Some expecting it to be the same or asking why it's not.,,,when it is built on a different contextual understanding
from the originating culture . .

windwalker wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYbPm-64aA

An interesting clip...

The teacher mentions the differences between traditional neijiaquan versus western practices

Thoughts ? ..

Not accurate/a difference in "western practices:"

• MMA trains hands, trapping, framing, clinching, trips, throws, submissions
• Uses crotch, waist, kua, shoulder, knees, elbows, whole body (e.g., Mike Tyson), etc.
• Trains inside of the body (e.g., movements are internalized, whole body)
• Double weights opponent thru no touch boxing (see Guo Shilei), not only unbalancing.
• Range includes non-contact to finish (e.g., push, strike, throw, submission)
• Hit and don’t get hit.
• Strike can turn into head control, etc.

I agree it's a mistake to make too many assumptions about what you don't study.

I think the technical approach derives from the contextual needs of the application. Maintaining contact and pressure makes sense is response to a committed attack, like in self-defense counter-assault, or in a military engagement with melee weapons, but doesn't really work in a sport context where everyone has time and space to move around and devise counters. So comparing a specialized sport art to a "jack-of-all-trades" civilian defense art is very much apples to oranges. Talking about it in terms of cultural context or body mechanics as if those things preceded the functional needs of the arts tends to muddy the issue more than clarify, IMO.

Thought the language analogy he used was pretty good.

windwalker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYbPm-64aA

No. This is based on the non-sensical idea that Western arts and waijia are moving from the hands and feet, not the body. It's absurd and shows he hasn't tested his stuff against decent people that practice outside neijia arts. The hands in styles like boxing and choylifut move faster because they train to be fast and because they use THE WAIST. Neijia arts like tongbei, XYQ, baji, etc. don't develop the waist power as much because they focus on THE HIPS. Boxing and choylifut use the waist because they are primarily long range arts and the waist has a lot more flexibility than the hips. Neijia arts don't have as much reach because they are hip based.
CLF hands are fast due to rotation of the body:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy-b36qPAg
Stand in a bow stance, put your fist out at shoulder height then just turn your hips as far front as you can without turning the waist. Mentally mark that spot then turn your waist forward starting from your maximum hip extension and you'll usually gain 4-6" of reach. Neijia people don't like doing this type stuff because separating the hip and waist is controversial but you have to deal with punches and kicks whether people like it or not. If your practice is 100% hip based then you better learn to deal with people that use waist power or your lunch will get eaten.

Second, he still has this ridiculous idea about sticking. Yes, you don't retract your hand and the idea is the crash into the center. Great. YOU STILL HAVE TO GET THERE and if you're eating punches and kicks from a range you can't operate in then that won't work. Also, Western boxers and most choylifut guys aren't just gonna let you keep control of that arm.

Finally he totally dismisses head shots which neijia people don't like to train against because it's outside of push hands practice. The opponent's center gets controlled very well when they get knocked out -- an outcome he doesn't even address.

You know I do know that a lot of Tai Chi teachers teach that the hips are the waist, I don't know that is necessarily correct. The hips drive the waist but as a function of the kuas opening and closing. If you're turning your hips everywhere you're supposed to be turning your waist, speed is just one factor that suffers, you're also compromising your structure and limiting your degrees of freedom.

I think there's a bit of didactic dogma in chinese martial arts that gets a little silly the further we get from testing against fully resisting opponents and the training actually mattering for actual combat.

I have been saying for years internal arts use the waist not the hips

So, he’s wrong because he’s making huge generalizations about Waijiaquan.
And to prove that he’s wrong, here’s some huge generalizations about Neijiaquan.

-facepalm-

LMAO