Other than that...the training is quite simple. You simply hit your phone book or your rice-filled bag with the palm of your hand, and wait, and breath, and sink your breath, and try to feel something other than your own effort coming through your hand. Then you stick your hand in your medicine and go home... and do it again tomorrow, for the next ten or fifteen years.
Mpstaples
Quigga wrote:And here I was thinking you want to fly me in
I was getting excited for a second
How embarrassing
robert wrote:Wang Haijun writes in The Five Most Important Taijiquan Skills for BeginnersIn the first part of this article, published in the Summer 2010 edition, I discussed the first of the five most important taijiquan skills for beginners, fang song. In this article I discuss what I consider to be the second and third most important skills for beginners, peng jin and ding jin.
(From the first article -
When asked what I consider the five most important skills for a beginner student in taijiquan, I listed them as:
1. Fang Song – Loosen the body by relaxing the joints
2. Peng Jin – an outward supportive strength, the basic skill of taiji
3. Ding Jin – upright and straight
4. Chen - rooted
5. Chan Si Jin – Reeling Silk Skill)
It is worth repeating that these are difficult ideas to formulate in words. They are difficult to gain an understanding of. It is difficult to grasp the skill of them. They must be shown. The student must be led to them. They are not skills that lead themselves to be grasped intuitively. This is why most people do not get a good basic grounding in them. Many teachers do not have these skill, so naturally it is not possible for their students to gain them. Even today, after more than 20 years of high level taijiquan practitioners being available as visiting teachers, still the level of these skills is not as high as it might be given the dedication, perseverance and effort of many players here in the UK.
2. Peng Jin - – an outward supportive strength: the basic skill of taijiquan
Peng Jin (sometimes simply Peng) is the core skill of taijiquan. All other taijiquan skills are based around the skill. It comes from loosening the body (fang song) and stretching. In essence, ‘stretching but not straightening’ the joints. Peng is not a natural or instinctive skill. It comes from a long period of correct practice. Without a good understanding of peng and then considerable training to transform this understanding into this skill in every part of the body, it will not arise. Peng will not be gained by accident. It is systematically trained into the body over time.
When I was exploring writing this piece I considered making peng jin the first most important skill of taijiquan. However, while peng should be considered the most important skill, it is dependent on loosening the body (fang song.) It is an effective argument that Taijiquan is peng jin chuan because without peng there is no taijiquan. It is taijiquan’s essential skill. Peng is always used when moving, neutralizing, striking, coiling etc,. Through peng all other taijiquan skills are utilized.
This accords with what is written in Chen Changxin's 10 Essentials regarding three harmonies -心與意合,氣與力合,筋與骨合,內三合也。
xin (heart/mind) harmonizes with yi (intention), qi harmonizes with li (power/strength), and jin (muscle/tendon) harmonizes with gu (bone), these are the three internal harmonies.
robert wrote:I didn't quote the whole article, WHJ wrote more about peng jin in the article. This might clear it up.
https://www.nickgudge.ie/5.b.vii.-whj-articles-beginners-2.html
From inside the body, when peng is present any pressure is transferred to the ground (rooted.)
.
windwalker wrote:
a ballon floating in air demonstrates "peng jin" does not depend on ground contact...
cloudz wrote:ok.. two types of peng jin ?
That still leaves intrinsic force (neijin) - what is it, does it play any part in Chen style whatsoever ?
It isn't satisfying, in my opinion, to talk about two kinds of peng jin and ignore intrinsic force as if it has zero to do with anything.
Chen Fake taught that there are two types of peng jin. The first is the fundamental skill or strength of taijiquan. The second is one of the eight commonly recognized taijiquan jins, (peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lieh, zhou & kao.)
origami_itto wrote:windwalker wrote:
a ballon floating in air demonstrates "peng jin" does not depend on ground contact...
It might, but it's functionally useless. Any force acting against the free floating balloon will just push it away. For the balloon to exert force against something else, it has to have something to provide that equal and opposite reaction. It must be anchored somehow or it will just push itself away.
And yes, even 4 oz of force is an amount of force.
For the balloon to exert force against something else, it has to have something to provide that equal and opposite reaction.
It must be anchored somehow or it will just push itself away.
windwalker wrote:origami_itto wrote:windwalker wrote:
a ballon floating in air demonstrates "peng jin" does not depend on ground contact...
It might, but it's functionally useless. Any force acting against the free floating balloon will just push it away. For the balloon to exert force against something else, it has to have something to provide that equal and opposite reaction. It must be anchored somehow or it will just push itself away.
And yes, even 4 oz of force is an amount of force.
good example of missing the point...no 4oz has nothing to do with the amount of force,,,
It's not about "force"
YMMV
windwalker wrote:For the balloon to exert force against something else, it has to have something to provide that equal and opposite reaction.
It must be anchored somehow or it will just push itself away.
ya might want to think about this,,,
So if you touch someone and they move, then a force was exerted. Either you exerted the force directly with your own body, or I guess theoretically you did something psychological or energetic that made them exert it themselves, or maybe you just channeled their force they tried to exert into you into the ground and back out again
windwalker wrote:It’s called Momentum, referencing the balloons.
Try it.
With Fully equally inflated balloons,
with one balloon half inflated,
with one balloon not inflated.
Let one drop, throw the other balloon at it so that it hits it.
See the results.
ZMC, his rope analogy was referring to mind.
Not to the amount of force, The amount of force has to do with awareness level triggers among other things
Although some might come to the conclusion based on where the rope is placed on the ox as he mentioned, it is about the force.
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