Your taiji maybe wrong

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Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 8:49 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3Bs14jHL8

Your Taichi maybe wrong !你的太极拳,可能练错了
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby Quigga on Mon May 23, 2022 9:26 am

Nice video :D
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 9:34 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4l1TusXxg
Definition of Peng jin(棚劲) in Taichi(太极拳)(从太极拳推手,看太极的棚劲)



The teacher, very unique in that he is a native speaker trying to make clear distinctions about what many question using
the language and terminology translated to English.. :)

for those with questions....his clip might be a good place to go for answers..
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 11:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby Quigga on Mon May 23, 2022 10:23 am

Thanks for the reference :-)

(And the sneaky compliment :P)
Last edited by Quigga on Mon May 23, 2022 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby SCMT on Mon May 23, 2022 11:03 am

Interesting
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 11:09 am

In the OP clip,,,He references this video.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un979j09g5E&t=619s

Theory 1:ancient kongfu,lost way of use power,in xingyi taiji and bagua内家拳理论:柔道,搏击,内家拳 ,三种不同的用力方式


For those interested the best place for direct questions from "him" is through the clip link posted......
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby Bao on Mon May 23, 2022 12:59 pm

I liked it and I agree with a lot of what he says. As that Tai Chi is often taught wrongly. And yeah, many people moves at the periphery, not from the core. I don't think his four corners covers very much though, but I guess it can be good as reference.

The spine should be coiling, and the body should expanding, contract, rise sink - at the core, from the core (Not from the his four corners). This has been my philosophy of Tai Chi body movement, and the way I have practiced Tai Chi, for well over 25 years.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 1:20 pm

Bao wrote:I liked it and I agree with a lot of what he says. As that Tai Chi is often taught wrongly. And yeah, many people moves at the periphery, not from the core. I don't think his four corners covers very much though, but I guess it can be good as reference.

The spine should be coiling, and the body should expanding, contract, rise sink - at the core, from the core (Not from the his four corners). This has been my philosophy of Tai Chi body movement, and the way I have practiced Tai Chi, for well over 25 years.


It might be interesting, :)

For those interested to address questions of differences of opinion to the teacher directly
and discuss them here... :)

a comment from the link

对于所有不确定这里指出的内容的人。 他正在讨论内功的运动原理之一,在这种情况下是太极拳。 虽然他是正确的,但这取决于你的水平,例如。 在达到一定的能力水平之前,初学者往往不太灵活,而且更僵硬。 此外,他在“挥手如云”中的动作演示非常程式化,并非所有版本的 TCC 都将其练习到如此极端。

google translate :

For all those who are not sure what is pointed out here.
He was discussing one of the movement principles of Nei Gong, in this case Tai Chi. Although he is correct, it depends on your level, eg.

Beginners tend to be less flexible and more rigid until a certain level of ability is reached. Also, his motion demonstrations in "Waves Like a Cloud" are very stylized, and not all versions of TCC practice it to such extremes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3Bs14jHL8&t=12s

Like the teachers work, for those non native speakers, a good chance to understand something from others who are
and expressing their views with physical demos on it... :)
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 1:32 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un979j09g5E&t=623s

One thing, found quite interesting.

He outlined and presented a good explanation of why some arts like mantis, and white crane for example are not really
compatible with the way taiji and other Internal arts develop and use their movement..

Something that rang true in my own path, clearly explained...as to the why...
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby Appledog on Mon May 23, 2022 1:45 pm

windwalker wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3Bs14jHL8

Your Taichi maybe wrong !你的太极拳,可能练错了


This should make the top 10 list on things people don't need to worry about if they have a good teacher. Right beside normal vs. reverse breathing, and large vs small circle IMO...

Actually both methods are the same method, just like the above two examples. The question is why you are moving one way or another way. If your body is 'dead' inside then it represents a heatsink for qi, but if you are wriggling in the wrong way I would say it is even worse. If I was teaching (you, anyone) tai chi, which I am not, I would teach you with the square method first, then I would show you specific ways of opening and closing, folding, etc. -- like open and close in sun style. Then you would know where the correct 'wriggles' are. After that it is a matter of feeling, wouldn't you say?
Last edited by Appledog on Mon May 23, 2022 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 1:57 pm

Appledog wrote:
windwalker wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3Bs14jHL8

Your Taichi maybe wrong !你的太极拳,可能练错了


This should make the top 10 list on things people don't need to worry about if they have a good teacher. Right beside normal vs. reverse breathing, and large vs small circle IMO...

Actually both methods are the same method, just like the above two examples. The question is why you are moving one way or another way. If your body is 'dead' inside then it represents a heatsink for qi, but if you are wriggling in the wrong way I would say it is even worse. If I was teaching (you, anyone) tai chi, which I am not, I would teach you with the square method first, then I would show you specific ways of opening and closing, folding, etc. -- like open and close in sun style. Then you would know where the correct 'wriggles' are. After that it is a matter of feeling, wouldn't you say?


I would say you like to write a lot,
Thank you for your kindness


My post was a suggesting for those with issues or questions they should talk to the teacher directly and than
post the question and answer here...some might have the same question...or other questions...

either way :)

Like the teacher’s efforts to convey his thoughts, agree with many of them....
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 23, 2022 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby Bao on Tue May 24, 2022 1:57 am

windwalker wrote:
It might be interesting, :)

For those interested to address questions of differences of opinion to the teacher directly
and discuss them here... :)

a comment from the link

... Although he is correct, it depends on your level, eg.

Beginners tend to be less flexible and more rigid until a certain level of ability is reached.



This is correct as well. IMO, it's important for beginners to first understand balance and get a good understanding of zhongding first: understanding, feeling and using the centreline. This will probably take at least two years of diligent, focused practice. So beginners should always practice tai chi very straight, strict and get the basics first, while developing good rooting. Later, you will be able to maintain the same stability and balance by sinking the strength down the legs and feet, while at the same time use the upper body in a more flexible, lively manner. People who don't build Tai Chi body mechanics, and skill, in a very strict and conscious manner, step-by-step, might never "get it". Others might stop the development at a beginner's level.

... Also, his motion demonstrations in "Waves Like a Cloud" are very stylized, and not all versions of TCC practice it to such extremes.


He overdone it a bit for sure, for explanation I guess. My own teacher taught that it's important to learn how to "hide" the mechanics externally.
I believe this is correct. The internal movements can be big, but should look small on the outside. After all, it's the internal movements (inside the body) that are important, not the external. Focusing on the visual appearance will always lead you astray.
Last edited by Bao on Tue May 24, 2022 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby origami_itto on Tue May 24, 2022 4:00 am

Appledog wrote:
windwalker wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3Bs14jHL8

Your Taichi maybe wrong !你的太极拳,可能练错了


This should make the top 10 list on things people don't need to worry about if they have a good teacher. Right beside normal vs. reverse breathing, and large vs small circle IMO...

Actually both methods are the same method, just like the above two examples. The question is why you are moving one way or another way. If your body is 'dead' inside then it represents a heatsink for qi, but if you are wriggling in the wrong way I would say it is even worse. If I was teaching (you, anyone) tai chi, which I am not, I would teach you with the square method first, then I would show you specific ways of opening and closing, folding, etc. -- like open and close in sun style. Then you would know where the correct 'wriggles' are. After that it is a matter of feeling, wouldn't you say?


So I'd agree here. My first instruction on learning to use the waist is to have them hold something like a stick or ruler with their wrist on one end on the other pressed against their chest, then I tell them to draw circles with their hand without dropping the stick.

They have to use their waist to draw the circles or the distance changes and they drop the stick.

This leads into silk reeling type exercises that start to incorporate proper use of the arms from the back, then combines with walking exercises to put the whole package together.

Once they have that basic form we can start looking at the Simplified form and grasp sparrow's tail.

The form movements, taught and studied properly, should teach all the wiggly nuance.

As far as the wiggly bits themselves and the rectangle, yes, it's what I was trying to say to Formosa the other day when he told me to go sit at the kids table.

I think people get the wrong idea about 6h and that leads to some stiffness. If you're always trying to track your shoulders and hips the easiest and most logical way is to lock them together, right, make it move like one big unit.

But that's double weighted. We need to condition our body to have yin supporting yang with movement potential everywhere. Some might call it opening and closing cavities. This allows us to have more options for dealing with incoming force as it gives us more spirals and therefore more vector change options to apply to incoming force. That way a hand on the chest is no more able to apply force to our body than a hand on our arm.
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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby yeniseri on Tue May 24, 2022 7:42 pm

There are so many variations of Yangshitaijiquan but I personally feel that they are all valid within their frames of, and for reference.

Some of it MAY even be sham Yangshitaijiquan (relative term here ??? as opposed to an absolute reference of what Yang style is ;D ) due to the many iterations of the many who claim to study under a Yang member, all had too much divergence that is at odds with even the non Yang style frame instruction. It makes sense because Wang Lanting taught Li Ruidong (Lipaitaijiquan) and that form reference iall all aspects represents Wang and Li's verson of taijiquan, albeit at odds with the Yang Chengfu frame that is more or less the same in many aspects.

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Re: Your taiji maybe wrong

Postby windwalker on Tue May 24, 2022 8:04 pm

Posting clips that others may find interesting as I do...

Made by a teacher willing to share a little of his ideas...in an open way..

From someone presenting what might be called a native understanding from within the originating culture

Takes a lot of time to translate and offer concepts that may not be familiar to those outside of the culture or even some within the culture.

Feel that most taiji based yang variants have more in common than differences, differences may be more related to level of practice if
the practice is correct to begin with..



Presents some interesting ideas based on someone having a native understanding of the arts presented at level that may help others understand their practices

His general idea while not IMA style specific does fall under the rubric of IMA practices, in trying to show internal concepts that others may find useful in their practices.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCZjGFxRA3Y
Last edited by windwalker on Tue May 24, 2022 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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