Your taiji maybe wrong

[cloudz]

I liked it and I agree with a lot of what he says. As that Tai Chi is often taught wrongly. And yeah, many people moves at the periphery, not from the core. I don't think his four corners covers very much though, but I guess it can be good as reference.

The spine should be coiling, and the body should expanding, contract, rise sink - at the core, from the core (Not from the his four corners). This has been my philosophy of Tai Chi body movement, and the way I have practiced Tai Chi, for well over 25 years.

I have a slightly different idea about this - yes move from centre is the core of it - however Ors talk about 'leading force' in the meat and bones thread. I have been using that in my transitions for quite a while as that is how I was taught it - to lead me from end of one posture into start of next .

It doesn't actually contradict anything but supplements the stretching of the bow during transitions. best of both in fact.
My advice would be don't write things off so easily, particularly if you have not explored/ experimented them for a while at least.

to try to illustrate a little further during transitions only - you are already open and at 'stretch1' position - the transition will be closing. through this part imagine your body like an accordion that stretches a bit more from the extremities. So in the transition you move through into 'stretch2' position and back to 'stretch1' position. At the same time 're setting' to the start of the next posture (as per normal).. transitions are loading the bow - this just adds a bit more.. the posture 'move through' releases and for this I am always using centre to extremity and back. that doesn't change.

These are not really something you use or learn to use at the same time. the yi component that you train these - which is slow countless times through the form - ingrains a way of moving. this is what you 'become'.

So essentially this is a little extra layer that starts to kick in to refine your biomechanics and movement flow. People however mistakenly take it as a whole other core body mechanic, which is far from the truth in my experience.

[Bao]

to try to illustrate a little further during transitions only - you are already open and at 'stretch1' position - the transition will be closing. through this part imagine your body like an accordion that stretches a bit more from the extremities. So in the transition you move through into 'stretch2' position and back to 'stretch1' position. At the same time 're setting' to the start of the next posture (as per normal).. transitions are loading the bow - this just adds a bit more.. the posture 'move through' releases and for this I am always using centre to extremity and back. that doesn't change.

I am not exactly sure about what you mean. But if sounds about right. Working with complementary and contradictory forces is another level, or step of development. IMO, you should first learn how to stretch out the movements from the core, this means developing changjin, or “long energy”. When you have done this, you need to learn how to balance and stabilize your frame from every direction. This means making the movements smaller and add specific principles. All of this can be taught. Yi is something else.

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwPC9oJWSA

Practicing Tai Chi, obsessed with routines, can have Pengjin(棚劲)?（练习太极拳，痴迷套路，能出棚劲吗？）

Like the teachers approach, sharing thoughts with English subtitles .
Outlines many of the questions people have talked about with demos to go with the explanations...

[cloudz]

to try to illustrate a little further during transitions only - you are already open and at 'stretch1' position - the transition will be closing. through this part imagine your body like an accordion that stretches a bit more from the extremities. So in the transition you move through into 'stretch2' position and back to 'stretch1' position. At the same time 're setting' to the start of the next posture (as per normal).. transitions are loading the bow - this just adds a bit more.. the posture 'move through' releases and for this I am always using centre to extremity and back. that doesn't change.

I am not exactly sure about what you mean. But if sounds about right. Working with complementary and contradictory forces is another level, or step of development. IMO, you should first learn how to stretch out the movements from the core, this means developing changjin, or “long energy”. When you have done this, you need to learn how to balance and stabilize your frame from every direction. This means making the movements smaller and add specific principles. All of this can be taught. Yi is something else.

maybe there is a sticking point.. I think to do with translation/ interpretation of "leading force". For example we have "listening force". However the better way to understand that is to read it as "listening TO force". So it describes a skill applied TO force rather than a quality of force (caused by resulting mechanics).So we are not really describing a force per se. In the same way you should read "leading force" as leading THE force. The Yi does all the work in the initial training; yes it changes how the body moves once you start to apply it in the transitions, but not to the point it changes any force issuing mechanics - IF you use it as i described.

Now yes, it can also be used to lead your strikes for example - this i believe may make a little difference to speed, increasing that and the force arrives a little delayed. . I think it's useful to have this idea in ones toolbox anyway. Though to be fair outside form, most people would naturally focus their intent on target so the slowness/ telegraphing thing sometimes brought up may not always apply either. Personally I think if you do fast form and other practices those kind of issues go away..

Honestly for you to really appreciate leading force as i am trying to write, the best thing would be for me to describe the solo exercise I was given. The yi alone pulls the body and causes the body change. The way i was taught it was through yi training. The description is mechanical because I was describing the effect in those terms after applied to form and ingrained - to the point where you don't rely so much on focused yi as you once did. Building the slow into the fast does this over time for example. I honestly don't know how that turns out without the specific yi solo training exercise, because that's about as close to pure internal martial training exercise that I have done I would say.

You can probably do it without the sword but here is what i was given; stand in a front bow stance with wooden jian out ahead held in your lead hand. Imagine a spot out in the distance somewhere, maybe there's a tree or something out there. Settle comfortably and securely in your stance. Once ready start to focus your intent at the tip of the sword for a while, then draw that out to the spot you chose now rest a while your intent there on that spot in the distance - take your yi all the way out there and keep it there. This is the basic exercise rinse repeat. 5 to 10 minutes at a time is probably sufficient to get it going at the start and built up if required. It doesn't take too many times to start to get the initial feeling of it. I'm not sure if I should go further and try to describe how it goes, as that might spoil the fun!

[Formosa Neijia]

What's wrong is about 50% of what this guy says but he'll be extremely popular with people who think they are just extra special and who will never get out there and try this stuff out on their own against a resisting opponent. If they had done that years ago and knew how their systems worked, people would see the issues with what he's saying. It's not worth pointing out his errors because no one cares.

[Appledog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwPC9oJWSA

Practicing Tai Chi, obsessed with routines, can have Pengjin(棚劲)?（练习太极拳，痴迷套路，能出棚劲吗？）

Like the teachers approach, sharing thoughts with English subtitles .
Outlines many of the questions people have talked about with demos to go with the explanations...

Isn't it a defect of the form if you cannot even get peng jin from doing it over and over?

[Appledog]

What's wrong is about 50% of what this guy says but he'll be extremely popular with people who think they are just extra special and who will never get out there and try this stuff out on their own against a resisting opponent. If they had done that years ago and knew how their systems worked, people would see the issues with what he's saying. It's not worth pointing out his errors because no one cares.

50% is about par for the course. What has happened in my speculation is that people who cannot get (ex.pengjin) from the form have taken from other places and patched other things into their tai chi. This works most of the time but the problem is that you sometimes get cross-purposes with the attached baggage that comes from importing things willy-nilly into your art. Strange body shape, strange applications, incorrect ideas about power generation, and so forth. Then these exercises become baggage around your neck because they are external to the form, they don't really fit into the form, and your form doesn't itself express the ideas you need for things like (pengjin) and you kind of let it go and things start to slide further.

Before you know it you've switched styles and you're doing something like karate, wing chun, or mma and raving about how it has improved your tai chi.

Your tai chi looks like your xingyi looks like your bagua etc. and the flavor is gone from the soup.

The other day I forgot a move in the er lu (My teacher taught me a variation) and i went on a massive search to see if I could figure it out from videos online. I did, but along the way I saw some extremely strange movements in and around that area. Some people are doing things so differently it boggles my mind. I saw one lady do something that looked like a move from five animals snake fist in the middle of her erlu (the one where you lift one leg and do the snake pose) then go into what looked like convulsions then continue her er lu. It's enough to lose faith in humanity.

But, it's all good. The thing is, if you know, then it is your responsibility to pass it down properly so that at least someone else knows the truth. But as for here, there's no shame in saying what you think is wrong with the video so we can have some food for thought. IMO it's a defect of the form that you cannot get pengjin from it. I will also go out on a limb and say it is incorrect to suddenly throw the opponent out as soon as the hands touch. What do you think else about what he said and demonstrated?

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwPC9oJWSA

Practicing Tai Chi, obsessed with routines, can have Pengjin(棚劲)?（练习太极拳，痴迷套路，能出棚劲吗？）

Like the teachers approach, sharing thoughts with English subtitles .
Outlines many of the questions people have talked about with demos to go with the explanations...

Isn't it a defect of the form if you cannot even get peng jin from doing it over and over?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4l1TusXxg&t=86s


good presentation of "peng jin"

Outlines how part of form practice is understanding how it creates a 3d hollow sphere in space ,,how this is used to destabilize another's center...

If one follows this** and can not develop it, the error may be in their understanding of how to play the form,,,

**
Others may not agree or follow a different method


Like the teachers general idea and approach in trying to explain concepts of what are called internal arts
making them available to none Chinese speakers.

Should one have questions the teacher, will answer in the comment sections of his video clips..

[Formosa Neijia]

It's enough to lose faith in humanity.

Yeah been there for a while.

IMO it's a defect of the form that you cannot get pengjin from it.

Agreed and it's telling that peng needs to be explained. Clearly shows nearly no one is being taught it and it's the first of the 8 powers/basic techniques. If peng isn't built into your form you need to switch teachers or styles. Anyone that has tried to board a bus or train in Asia and has encountered any old ladies who are going to get a seat even if it kills them and others will understand peng intuitively.

[Appledog]

In electromagnetism there is something called the right hand rule. This states that if you grasp a wire with your right hand -- an insulated wire ;-) -- then if the charge were to flow in the direction your thumb was pointing, the magnetic flux field would flow in a circle around the wire in the direction that your fingers were pointing.

In celestial mechanics, a planet moving in space, with moon in orbit. As the planet moves, the moon travels in a spiral pattern defined by the straight line.

If you expose a wire to a moving magnetic field, charge will be induced in the wire according to the right hand rule.

Electrons travel on the outside of a wire. Electrons have a spin, which allows it to have a magnetic field, north and south. The particles are in tune with the magnetic field -- if it is not more correct to say the field is generated by them. As the electrons travel in the wire they spin and thus bump in a predictable -- although mainly brownian, somewhat predictable -- direction along the wire. They move in a spiral pattern along the wire.

According to Hong Junsheng, shun (outward) and ni (inward) rotation of the hand in silk reeling is exactly equivalent to peng and lu.

If you don't want to hurt someone, you don't transmit the whole power. You can do this by breaking the punch at the wrist (a phrase used by Robert W. Smith).

[origami_itto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwPC9oJWSA

Practicing Tai Chi, obsessed with routines, can have Pengjin(棚劲)?（练习太极拳，痴迷套路，能出棚劲吗？）

Like the teachers approach, sharing thoughts with English subtitles .
Outlines many of the questions people have talked about with demos to go with the explanations...

Isn't it a defect of the form if you cannot even get peng jin from doing it over and over?

I don't see the function of the form as developing Peng.

You find Peng in standing, then in the form you cultivate keeping it while moving.

I think it's easily confused with Kao. When my Peng is on and I touch someone that's not actively compensating they tend to have to take a step. I'm not pushing, but a light touch along the right line or even through the hands and they just float out. Kao is a more aggressive energy like one pool ball striking another.

There was someone I worked with that would put his feet on his couch and then hold his body off the ground with his ward off thinking he was developing Peng Jin. He was developing a nice stiff handle for me to manipulate. He tried to push through it and I was able to just negate it and push his whole body through it because it wasn't really Peng Jin, it was just Li. There was no interface with the earth.

[windwalker]

it wasn't really Peng Jin, it was just Li. There was no interface with the earth.
.

Interesting


at sea level there is 14.7 psi pressing down on the body at all points...matched by an internal pressure balance at the same and all points.
Any change such as deep in the ocean or high up in the atmosphere, changes this...For most people the only way they
will have any awareness of it.


peng, "expending force" exist within the body, the awareness of it is something that has to be developed, many ways to do this...

For some teachers like my own, he felt the standing was not that good,,, preferring to use the form practice as a "moving standing" practice.

The form practice also helps to develop an understanding of what might be called a virtual hollow spherical shape....with the center located outside the body.
This is knowing ones self.

The basic idea, that any type of contact with another changes the shape, the center must be reestablished based on this,,,this is knowing the other...

Does not require a ground point, ie connection with the earth, just as a soap bubble does not to remain spherical

the clip talks about this,,, illustrates the idea quite well..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4l1TusXxg&t=100s

[origami_itto]

it wasn't really Peng Jin, it was just Li. There was no interface with the earth.
.

Interesting


at sea level there is 14.7 psi pressing down on the body at all points...matched by an internal pressure balance at the same and all points.
Any change such as deep in the ocean or high up in the atmosphere, changes this...For most people the only way they
will have any awareness of it.


peng, "expending force" exist within the body, the awareness of it is something that has to be developed, many ways to do this...

For some teachers like my own, he felt the standing was not that good,,, preferring to use the form practice as a "moving standing" practice.

The form practice also helps to develop an understanding of what might be called a virtual hollow spherical shape....with the center located outside the body.
This is knowing ones self.

The basic idea, that any type of contact with another changes the shape, the center must be reestablished based on this,,,this is knowing the other...

Does not require a ground point, ie connection with the earth, just as a soap bubble does not to remain spherical

the clip talks about this,,, illustrates the idea quite well..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4l1TusXxg&t=100s

Sphere or not, at the level I'm working at I still need to have an equal and opposite force to act against. Without some sort of anchor to the ground, any force I exert will simply push me back.

As in the case of this gentleman, he was strong but he wasn't unified. The hard upper body was divided from the lower so I could affect the upper as a unit to work against the lower, destroy his structural integrity, and push him out.

[windwalker]

Sphere or not, at the level I'm working at I still need to have an equal and opposite force to act against. Without some sort of anchor to the ground, any force I exert will simply push me back.

As in the case of this gentleman, he was strong but he wasn't unified. The hard upper body was divided from the lower so I could affect the upper as a unit to work against the lower, destroy his structural integrity, and push him out.

ok...


haha,,,if you feel so....


One can only feel their own force,,,wouldn't it be better to learn to sense the center of gravity "CG" and work with that...not using force...
doing so follows

"don't crash into , don't don't collapse run away from" not done by equaling the force applied, but by controlling the amount of force allowed to be applied...

Typically 4oz is the guide

[robert]

In the Taiji Classics, in The Taijiquan Treatise of Wang Zongyue of Shanxi, dong jin, understanding jin, is discussed.

雖變化萬端。而理唯一貫。由著熟而漸悟懂劤。由懂劤而階及神明。然非用力之久。不能豁然貫通焉。

Brennan translates it thus -

Although there is an endless variety of possible scenarios, there is only this single principle [of yielding and sticking] throughout.
Once you have ingrained these techniques, you will gradually come to identify energies, and then from there you will work your way toward something miraculous. But unless you practice a lot over a long time, you will never have a breakthrough.

Here is a more literal translation.

The changes are endless. And yet there is only one principle, to be strung together. (It) becomes known as you gradually understand jin (懂劤/dong jin). From understanding jin you reach illumination. The correct way is to not exert oneself physically for a long time. (otherwise) you're not able to understand how to string together and connect.