difference between tai chi Lv(捋) and Lie(挒)

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o9LD9gY2lw

From the photo of Yang Chengfu,The difference between tai chi Lv(捋) and Lie(挒)从杨澄甫前辈拳照看，太极拳捋挒相辅相生和区别

[origami_itto]

Totally agree, that exact situation comes up all the time.

[wayne hansen]

This is basic stuff not done very well

[Doc Stier]

Too much focus on the arm and hand movements only, imo, but not enough focus on the legs and feet. As a result, the defender appears to lack a solid root.

Either the heel or the entire foot of one leg loses contact with the floor at the completion of some applications, and in other instances, he requires a couple of small recovery steps at the completion of the technique in order to maintain some semblance of balance and stability.

My teacher used to whack our legs with his short rattan stick when he saw these errors, as a painful reminder to be constantly aware of maintaining correct stances and controlled footwork, with proper structural alignment and solid rooting. It's an Old School method of teaching rarely encountered today, but quite effective as a motivational tool.

[Bob]

Top part of two piece fishing rod LOL

[windwalker]

A training clip, going over a concept

talking about what some might see in an old photo

now becomes

basic stuff, defender , fishing rod ect....

From the photo of Yang Chengfu,The difference between tai chi Lv(捋) and Lie(挒)从杨澄甫前辈拳照看，太极拳捋挒相辅相生和区别

What would have been a better way to express or show the idea ?

Thought the clip brought out some interesting ideas related to the position of the still photo of a famous master...

The value, that some might take away might be:

1. Ideas translated by native speakers in a format accessible to those who are not.
2. Concepts expressed by native speakers, translated into English using ideas that to them equate to English equivalents


Not like non native speakers taking Chinese words, trying to fit them to English equivalents.....

What would make this clip, or any clip more informative or clear...?

[Bob]

Clarification - fishing rod - "tool" for correcting & insuring structural alignment & structural integrity - " stinging" reminder - pleasures of xiao baji jia - a long forgotten training practice - double LOL

[Doc Stier]

Clarification - fishing rod - "tool" for correcting & insuring structural alignment & structural integrity - " stinging" reminder - pleasures of xiao baji jia - a long forgotten training practice - double LOL

Haha! Understood. I inherited the aforementioned rattan stick, and have used it for many years time to insure that the Old School teaching methods are not lost to the younger generations of today. LOL LOL

[marvin8]

The value, that some might take away might be:

1. Ideas translated by native speakers in a format accessible to those who are not.
2. Concepts expressed by native speakers, translated into English using ideas that to them equate to English equivalents

Not like non native speakers taking Chinese words, trying to fit them to English equivalents.....

Seinfeld Shorts
Apr 26, 2021

George's telephone line crosses with that of a woman named Donna Chang, and everyone seeks her advice when she convinces them that she's Chinese. Jerry winds up dating her.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChxJIcBwfFc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8uiGGYAtvE

[windwalker]

The value, that some might take away might be:

1. Ideas translated by native speakers in a format accessible to those who are not.
2. Concepts expressed by native speakers, translated into English using ideas that to them equate to English equivalents

Not like non native speakers taking Chinese words, trying to fit them to English equivalents.....

Seinfeld Shorts
Apr 26, 2021

George's telephone line crosses with that of a woman named Donna Chang, and everyone seeks her advice when she convinces them that she's Chinese. Jerry winds up dating her.

]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChxJIcBwfFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChxJIcBwfFc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8uiGGYAtvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8uiGGYAtvE

video links

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos.
Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

If you have nothing of substance to add to the thread
I would ask you to either not post or start your own...

regards...

[Bao]

Too much focus on the arm and hand movements only, imo, but not enough focus on the legs and feet. As a result, the defender appears to lack a solid root.

Either the heel or the entire foot of one leg loses contact with the floor at the completion of some applications, and in other instances, he requires a couple of small recovery steps at the completion of the technique in order to maintain some semblance of balance and stability.

Agree that he looks top heavy. Even a bit hard and stiff. He is a Chen guy.



Jokes aside, I like some of what he does, but I am not always convinced. I think he might get some of his upper body's compactness from Xingyi training. I would prefer more looseness in Tai Chi. However, it's a demonstration. Some people seem to not get always everything right when they speak, think and try to demonstrate things at the same time. I would prefer to actually feel a person first hand before judging too much.

My teacher used to whack our legs with his short rattan stick when he saw these errors, as a painful reminder to be constantly aware of maintaining correct stances and controlled footwork, with proper structural alignment and solid rooting. It's an Old School method of teaching rarely encountered today, but quite effective as a motivational tool.

Sounds perfect.

[windwalker]

Agree that he looks top heavy. Even a bit hard and stiff. He is a Chen guy.



Jokes aside, I like some of what he does, but I am not always convinced. I think he might get some of his upper body's compactness from Xingyi training. I would prefer more looseness in Tai Chi. However, it's a demonstration. Some people seem to not get always everything right when they speak, think and try to demonstrate things at the same time. I would prefer to actually feel a person first hand before judging too much.

I would think the point is not to convince but to share some findings....His Channel is not style specific, it's more about demonstrating what are called internal principles that can be used in other arts, or to distinguish the difference in approach between Chinese and western arts and help to clarify one's own practice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiaXynpjwO0&t=46s


Like what the teacher is doing and his approach...

Feeling it gives value to non-Chinese speakers, seeing and listening to interpretations to things they may have thought about, from a native speaker's, practitioner's perspective.

[wayne hansen]

If u don’t get the demo right it’s not trained right
If you allow a film to go out with things lacking it’s not in the perception

[windwalker]

The teacher does a good job of attempting to explain and answer questions to native speakers and non-native speakers when he translates into English or uses subtitles.

Touching on many of the topics talked about here, but not shown by
those doing the talking.

For those feeling a video is lacking, might be A good opportunity to display your own work showing what’s missing.



For questions posted on his clips, as shown here he seems very open to addressing them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFHJqm8ule4&t=66s

[everything]

joining this thread late. think I lost the context going from taijiquan to tongbei, but really enjoyed his tongbei video.