Converting Linear Bagua Form to Circle

[Bob]

Liu Yunqiao's linear "tighthand" form - Most common among Wu Tan practitioners is xiao kai men linear and then xiao kai men in the circle - some linear forms have , ieapons and also converting them to the circle, if you have posts, can then be used within and around the posts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHzPYee3jU



Converting it to the Circle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNyzAxsaaJ0



Liu Yunqiao teaching a bit on the conversion of linear xiao kai men and "tight hand" form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYQOLWeS30Y

[windwalker]

Nice clips..

A few questions

In some styles using circular foot work there is a specific distance in the stepping and patterns within the circle teaching
angles and foot positions...

Tibetan White Crane, Plum Flower Mantis come to mind



some of the patterns we used to train with... Historically on poles, stumps. In modern times other things used to replicate them...

Chin, Shifu
"David Chin" Lama Hop gar...

Mentioned one of the key points in the old days was not fall off.
In the old days people got injured badly falling of the poles
getting hit in the groin on the way down


Also used the poles to move between them if on the ground,,,teaching distance, stepping, angles of attack, defense ect..



Was wondering looking at the clips, is there a specific way of stepping or is it something that is freeform ?

[Bob]

For years I did kind of a rolling step natural walk with inner and outer positioning like that found in Tom Bisio's Ding Shi neigong bagua book - there is a version of ding shi like those found in Bisio's bagua online program that works initially for straight line mud sliding and also brick walking but I never feel comfortable with mud sliding step so I never use it

I want to clarify that I am speaking and sharing from my own experiences and do NOT speak for Wu Tan as its representive - different teachers, different interpretations yielding big time arguments - just too old for those kind of exchanges

[Bob]

Just checking notes - one way of getting the circle customized to your stepping is to mark off the width of the circle using a back bow stance - east, west, north, sothth then northeast, south east etc. etc. Then connect the 8 points for the circle - there may be other ways but this is what I know.

[windwalker]

I want to clarify that I am speaking and sharing from my own experiences and do NOT speak for Wu Tan as its representative - different teachers, different interpretations yielding big time arguments - just too old for those kind of exchanges

As am i,

Nice to hear others view points, and experiences...

thanks for sharing,,,liked watching the skilled teachers practice

Hope more share in this way...

My last taiji teacher once told me...Once you know "taiji"
you can do as you wish, call it what you want...

[Doc Stier]

In my personal experience of training the styles in our Shen Men Tao System, the practice and fighting application of IMA principles and techniques in a linear fashion is primarily associated with the Shansi Xingyiquan style, as this is the movement specialty of the style.

The use of the same IMA principles and similar techniques in lateral, circling movement is the specialty of our Sun Style Baguazhang. As such, I have never had to convert one to the other.

When correctly learned and trained, each style can effectively compensate for potential vulnerabilities in the other style. And although there is some degree of overlay in their footwork preferences, they remain two distinctly different, yet related methods. As always, ymmv.

[Bob]

Some training experiences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjyBSbupn8



Below - Understanding they label this a Cheng style method this is what the mud sliding step could be started as in a linear fashion - note in the clip the students have some rings - biggest mistake to to pile on the rings rather than use one or two - We have a subset set of the Mother palms like those in the clips which can be done linear or on the circle - what characterizes the subset is the symmetrical or balanced arm/hands rather than ding shi postures like the mill stone pushing palms - the subset works well when are trying to walk the bricks on the circle - you get a better balance and less likely to lean

In Bisio's program he labels them San Cai Ding Shi Method 1 Three Postures, San Cai Ding Shi Method 4a Spiraling Inward etc. etc. and track almost identical to what I learned to practice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtrgVQkozuI

[Bob]

In 1999 on my first trip to China we were supposed to meet up with Master Huang Zhi Cheng in either Jinan or Qingdao Shandong but things got mixed and it didn't happen and in latter trips we found out that he had passed of a heart attack - he is from the Gong Baotian line and at the following marks you can see what I was trying to get at - although we start with that walking posture it moves roughly from posture to posture via internal (say kidneys) to external (say back) and can be used in a number of patterns - he also illustrates how to walk the square which we also incorporate into our training

Basic stepping at the 9:00 mark

Get an idea at the 14:22 mark and 56:08

and 55:57 to end you can see him "walk the square" which is something we learned much later

All in all I wish I would have met him because his flavor, flow and execution is what I personally (only me perhaps) best characterizes what the bagua I practice should aim for - again personal and I am not an master of any of the arts - just a practitioner who enjoys the journey Had his VHS tape long before it made it to Youtube LOL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXqi-qf1xQU

In the video, Master Huang Zhi Cheng demonstrates the Bagua Zhang style jibenggong (base).The master shows in detail the basic technique of the style: movements, the position of the palms, 8 basic palms, the basic ligaments of the style. The training is carried out with repetition and detailed explanation.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnClj3lLVS0

In the video, Master Huang Zhi Cheng demonstrates the jibenggong (base) of the Bagua Zhang style.The master shows in detail the basic technique of the style: movements, the position of the palms, 8 basic palms, the basic forms of the style, gives the application of these forms. Some fragments of work with jian, dao, zhuangyuan bi (academician's brush), tzu yuanyang yue (axes of the zi, wu and mandarin ducks).

In the second part, Master Chen Shi Sun Zhijun and his disciple dismantle both the base and the complete Tao. The training is carried out with repetition and detailed explanation.

[edededed]

In my experience, walking circles is not too nitpicky regarding size, generally just aim for around 8 steps per circle (but could be more or less).

I didn't do the pushing-out at the end of the step (shown in the video with the non-Chinese guys practicing linearly) - that seems to be limited to some (not all) Cheng lines.