Don’t take offence

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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:11 pm

I don’t take metal weapons to my outdoor training spot due to the fact I don’t want the police called
I take a sword exactly like the ones in the clip
It’s 50 years old simply because I don’t use it against others
While talking with a okinawan weapons black belt years ago I was explaining why we use wax wood or rattan instead of Oak like his brand new Bo
Unfortunately during the demo my wax wood staff split his Bo in two
Have you ever seen a fencer attack in the manner used
Have you ever seen a tai chi sword used in the manner used
It shows a lack of understanding of the construction and use of a real sword
It is like the fencer hitting a brick wall with the sword
The only thing it can do is break or come out of his hand
We have weapons for practice and those for two man engagement
Anyone who has done FMA will know how soon weapons are destroyed thru practice
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby phil b on Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:44 pm

windwalker wrote:
No flowery words, no magic tricks, just sweat, blood, and tears.


Always find these comments quite interesting.


In most cases an assumptions by someone never training in what they deride
Had they,,,they would know its often more difficult to train that what they suggest...

Case in point Ben Lo's classes were known by those who've trained in them as being quite physically challenging in meeting his requirements.
The same could be said of other teachers,,, "meeting the requirements"

...


I really don't get your point. First off, you make wild assumptions about my experiences, and secondly, your Ben Lo argument basically agrees with the snippet you quoted. Honestly, I think you are seeking to provoke at every opportunity or simply deluded.

Since you mention Ben Lo... I met a guy that had trained with Ben Lo. His tai chi, while not to my taste, was decent. However, he, like you, loved to waffle on about mystical mumbo jumbo. Soon after I started training with him, he showed me footage of Ben Lo's teacher and declared "he would have beaten Tyson in a fight." I stopped training with him at the moment.

If you are happy with how you practice, good for you. If you meet others that want to train with you, great. People challenge ridiculous claims for the very reason they are ridiculous. If that upsets you, that is your problem.
Last edited by phil b on Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just your average office worker :p
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:20 pm

Wasn’t Bens teacher Chen Man Ching
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Giles on Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:23 pm

Yes, he was. According to sources, he learned from CMC for 26 years.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Quigga on Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:58 am

If anyone really believes that TMA in the last 30-50 years hasn't managed to produce a better fighter than Tyson I feel sad... Look at fights in the animal kingdom - always a last resort, lethality being a very real topic, infections... Some exchange prior to actual fighting - communicating territorial claims ....
I get craving violence, I really do, but competing and fighting are 2 different things.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Quigga on Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:01 am

Look at how conflicted the old Tyson is inside now... How much has he changed...? Pointing at his belts and titles, saying they are all worthless. I bet he would trade it all if his daughter came back to him.
Quigga

 

Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Giles on Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:35 am

windwalker wrote:
Giles wrote: I listened. He's not lying or faking. But he's already been recruited into this circus, so at the time the cameras roll, a filtering process has already taken place.


A another mind reader,,,,amazing.

And if some one was videoing the encounters you had and posted them.
Would others watching, say they also were recruited into your "circus"


If I was working and exchanging with one of the guys I described and at that moment someone spontaneously pulled out a smartphone and filmed a little (and the involved parties afterwards agreed it was OK to post it on the web), then it would be a simple record of what was already happening. I'm sure you realize the filmed scenes we see here are the result of a process of selection and recruitment, production and other 'baggage'. It's not as if these guys in the film just happened to be out walking and then bumped into each other, when Mizner says "I have a film crew with me, you seem like nice and strong young men, want to take part?" That doesn't mean these guest athletes are faking it, or are idiots. They are hugely skilled and dedicated, and I admire them. But this is a side issue.

Now I'll repeat things, because I think they worth repeating with all the back-and-forth in this thread. I have much respect for the fencer's skill and achievements in his own field. But this situation involves (for him) unfamiliar wooden practice swords, which as others here remark are totally different. And he then carries out see-it-coming attacks and encounters a technique (analagous to William C.C. Chen's 'block to a spot') with which he is unfamiliar. It's a good basic technique in the tai chi canon. You have to work with the mind as well as with the body. Mizner executes it well, for what it's worth. Hey, tai chi can do good stuff too! :) Although I think that other aspects of tai chi (as a fighting art) are more useful and interesting than what is shown here. The problematic element is what the whole production implies, starting with the film title. It's typical for the kind of communication we also see in many areas of politics and propaganda, nowadays and also historically: start with a certain true occurrence or situation and then take it out of context, blow it up, knowingly use it to make implications, to draw conclusions, that are distorted, that are disconnected from what actually happens. It's not sincere.
Last edited by Giles on Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:43 am

Giles wrote: The problematic element is what the whole production implies, starting with the film title. It's typical for the kind of communication we also see in many areas of politics and propaganda, nowadays and also historically: start with a certain true occurrence or situation and then take it out of context, blow it up, knowingly use it to make implications, to draw conclusions, that are distorted, that are disconnected from what actually happens. It's not sincere.


This. And everything else you said. Interesting that those arguing against this point do so without providing one single clip, ever, of themselves exhibiting "secret chi power." We can only speculate as to why.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Quigga on Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:19 am

I for one don't claim to have anything special :-)
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Dmitri on Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:23 am

Why did I watch that... ::) -puke- -dighole-
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby windwalker on Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:48 am

wayne hansen wrote:Wasn’t Bens teacher Chen Man Ching


https://drcaseycarter.net/wp-content/up ... rvator.pdf

The link has some nice pictures and good over view of Ben's history and teaching...

Benjamin Jeng Pang Lo (1927 – 2018), a Tai Chi teacher who has had a great influence on many Tai Chi practitioners, passed away on October 12, 2018.
He was 93 years old.


Cancer got him....

Nice guy, quite detailed and demanding in his teaching adhering to the standards of practice
he set for himself and those that came to learn from him.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby windwalker on Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:55 am

Giles wrote:
The problematic element is what the whole production implies, starting with the film title. It's typical for the kind of communication we also see in many areas of politics and propaganda, nowadays and also historically: start with a certain true occurrence or situation and then take it out of context, blow it up, knowingly use it to make implications, to draw conclusions, that are distorted, that are disconnected from what actually happens.

It's not sincere.


Is this clip sincere



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtCfUaL-leo
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby Quigga on Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:04 am

StormStrider, I liked the pics in the PDF. Will give it a read some time

If we go this route... Any clip can be said to have been staged - or rather, the creator has intentions when making the vid

I've heard that some Chen teachings can be quite misleading. Whether that's true or not, done on purpose or not is something else

My style is better than your style... Virtual push hands?

I don't get why Adam is crossing his arms in front of his chest in another vid during a couple scenes... ..

Also, Dmtri, your post was my first gut reaction when looking at the clip tbh
Quigga

 

Re: Don’t take offence

Postby windwalker on Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:11 am

Don’t take offence


Interesting title choice

Seems like many have and do take offense

Caption under the clip..

Morgan Freeman introduces us to Tim Moorehouse, Olympic silver medalist fencer who is describing how it felt to be on the receiving end of a sword from Tai Chi Master Adam Mizner.

Bearing in mind that Adam has never trained using a sword!

From the new film Power of Qi where elite world champion athletes of different disciples from around the world test their strength and stability against the internal skill and power of the Qi that is cultivated in Tai Chi training.


The clip itself doesn't really show much, kind of invites questions as to why someone trained as an Olympic silver
medalist fencer could not manage to pick up anything and react to what seems to be a simple strike from a known opponent.

Many here suggesting what they feel, ignoring what the fencer Tim, said...

Describing something that in all his yers of experience he has not felt.
Didn't talk about the wooden sword, or lack of familiarity with it...

Maybe not an issue for him, as I also would have expected given his experience level.

The clip posted, well produced, show and use the same type of demo/training
that others have used to show case their work...

No offense taken...
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don’t take offence

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:12 am

windwalker wrote:Is this clip sincere



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtCfUaL-leo


No
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