Sun Form section by section

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Sun Form section by section

Postby Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:28 am

Hi all,

It's been a few years since I've posted a video of my Sun form. Last time I posted I received some very keen observations and critiques, and after a lot of reflection and practice during the first Covid lockdown here in France, and filmed the form again section by section.
I really tried to work on Windwalker's observation that the wave-like movement come clearly from the center. Also the expansion of the lungs in all directions during the kai/he movement. Anyway, I think that there is a visible difference in movement quality but I could be fooling myself. Here it is:

Last edited by Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sean
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Lille, France

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:56 am

Sean wrote:Hi all,
It's been a few years since I've posted a video of my Sun form.
...
Anyway, I think that there is a visible difference in movement quality but I could be fooling myself. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4veXILXLKU


Had a look at the old video as well. Big improvement really, you are doing great. It looks smoother, more balanced and more confident. Overall it looks very good.

I haven't really gone through it in detail, but 2 things that immediately brought my attention:

Better if you don't stop the movement, try to flow between the postures.

Maybe you have studied Yang style? In Sun style "brush knee", the wrist doesn't fold as many yang stylists do. The wrist should be kept steady and the strike start from keeping the palm close behind the ear, as in shot-put.

Watch Sun Jianyun, Sun Peng and Wang Xikui, how they keep constant flowing through the moments and how they do the "brush knee".
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9030
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:27 am

Hey Bao,

Thanks for the feedback!

Yes, that folding of the wrist is definitely a Yang style influence. I remember my teacher, Yang Zhen He, telling me to do it that way in order to emphasize the difference between empty and full in the palm.
Do you know why it's held straight up in place from beginning to end in Sun style? I have an inkling why but would like to hear some other ideas.

cheers,

Sean
Last edited by Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sean
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Lille, France

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:50 am

As I do it, you should pull back the shoulder blade gently to “load” the whole side and arm. If the wrist goes limp, you’ll lose it. You keep loaded until you release by pulling back the opposite shoulder blade.

I do pretty much the same in my yang practice as in my Sun style. Personally I am not a fan of the large frame yang style variations of “brush knee” I like to keep the hand close to the body and strike with the palm aligned with the centerline.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9030
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 am

I do remember Tim telling me to think of throwing a shot put when doing the brush knee twist step.

Thanks again for the tip. I'm going to be concentrating extra on this.
Sean
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Lille, France

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Giles on Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:49 pm

Very nice work, Sean :)

A couple of points relating to body mechanics (for want of a better term):
- Your lower back is (still) a little stiff, or to use a metaphor: could be more permeable. This slight blockage is more pronounced on the right side, around the right sacroiliac joint. If you can soften and integrate this area more, let gravity act on it more (through your own training or also with some bodywork from a good practitioner) then you might experience even more flow and heaven-earth connection. Also in partner training.

- (This one is more debatable, but it's my view) When stepping forwards your body (and probably your mind) seems oriented a little overly towards 'forwards' and less towards 'sinking into/through the front foot' (or 'vertical'). A symptom of this is that your front knee tends to move a little too far out over your front foot. This isn't a question of aesthetics, it's a question of alignment and the resulting integrity of structure. This will also be a factor when you are under pressure from an opponent and/or generating pressure.

I hope these observations are useful. And I very much enjoyed watching your form work here - already has lots of good qualities, thanks for posting.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 1364
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:07 pm

Hi Giles,
Those are some very good observations. I do have problems with my lower back on the right side and have been struggling to loosen it up through my practice. I really do need to find someone here that does good body work, though. I had a good shiatsu person, but, alas, they moved away.

And you’re right, I do have a slight forward lean when I do the form, but it’s intentional. Comes from the wrestling and grappling I do, I guess. When I do the form and imagine a resisting opponent in front of me It’s just natural to have that forward intent. But maybe I’m doing too much. I’ll take your advice and try to integrate more sinking energy into the stepping.

I really appreciate the feedback from you guys!

Cheers
Sean
Last edited by Sean on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sean
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Lille, France

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Michael Babin on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 pm

Hi Sean
Very nice and I wish I could do the kicks with the same flexibility and height that you demonstrate. My only excuses after 20+ years of doing Sun 97 Posture is being much older and having an artificial hip. :)

Sun-style taiji isn't my main focus of practise but I liked everything I saw and it certainly reminded me of how Tim Cartmell articulates his version of that solo form although I thought that you made the potential head butt a little too obvious in the 7th Section as you are concluding Parting the Wild Horse's Mane. On the other hand, I really liked the expansion and contraction of your Open & Close movements; it's rare to see practitioners demonstrate that they are moving the spine, the chest and scapula in the correct manner and not just moving their arms in and out.

You've obviously made the most of the extra opportunity we have all had in the last two+ years to do more solo work since it was difficult -- even dangerous -- to work with people during the height of the contagion.
My Website [with a link to my Youtube Channel] https://sites.google.com/view/mbtaiji/home
Michael Babin
Wuji
 
Posts: 726
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:26 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Giles on Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:59 am

Sean wrote:Hi Giles,
Those are some very good observations. I do have problems with my lower back on the right side and have been struggling to loosen it up through my practice. I really do need to find someone here that does good body work, though. I had a good shiatsu person, but, alas, they moved away.

And you’re right, I do have a slight forward lean when I do the form, but it’s intentional. Comes from the wrestling and grappling I do, I guess. When I do the form and imagine a resisting opponent in front of me It’s just natural to have that forward intent. But maybe I’m doing too much. I’ll take your advice and try to integrate more sinking energy into the stepping.


Hi Sean,
Aside from shiatsu, you might like to check out the osteopaths in Lille (a quick search shows there are several). Expressed very crudely, some osteopaths tend to work more with explicit interventions to the movement apparatus (which can be great if they do this well). While others work more with, or at least include, the craniosacral approach, which is also anatomy-based but goes deeper into various underlying systems in a more non-directive way. Kind of asking your body questions, or making a few gentle suggestions, and seeing how you respond at a deeper level. (Some might call this pure 'woo-woo', but it ain't. Speaking from personal experience, I can say that this sometimes influences/heals in a very effective way, also regarding muscular issues). I would recommend you try someone who takes this approach. Of course, in the end the quality of the practitioner himself/herself is even more important than the label on the box).
One-on-one Feldenkrais work (Functional Integration, which is basically a 'treatment', too) is also worth looking at.

If you can dissolve the blockage in your lower back/pelvis to some extent, then you may well find this in itself helps you sink more through the legs/feet and generally move in a more 'vertical' manner. Leaning forward is in itself no problem. After all, there are plenty of Wu style peeps who have that pronounced external forward lean and still don't move their centre even a millimeter forwards out of alignment; they are still very much 'downwards/vertical' in their orientation.
I don't do Sun style but when I'm doing my own Yang-ish form, by myself, I sometimes do the Sun-style thing of moving 100% into the front foot in 'an' or suchlike. Whether remaining in a 70/30 bow stance or going 100%, I generally try to send my mind in two main directions simultaneously: the part of my mind governing my weight/centre goes straight down into the earth, while the mind element governing the arms/hands doing the forwards-oriented technique goes out towards the horizon. Of course I don't push my hand/hands out of my 'sphere' but the idea keeps going out and gives the hands a different quality and connection.
Of course there are other mind directions, too; this is just a good basis.

Hope this isn't too much yaddayadda on my part; just like to share some of the stuff I'm training.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 1364
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Sean on Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:33 am

@Michael,
thanks so much for the feedback and, you're right, that head butt is a bit exaggerated. Too "ming jin." I'll tone it down.
When I do kai/he I try to focus my attention on several things. Expanding from and contracting to the center, using the whole space of the trunk, looking between the hands to correct the head position, and feeling the movement of chest and scapula but without exaggerating. But I think it's good to exaggerate in the beginning in order to get the feeling of extension before returning to the neutral position of the chest.

And these last few years have been heavy on the solo practice, for sure! It's been a pleasure to be back in class with students and training partners. I hope this new wave of Covid doesn't throw a wrench in things!

@Giles
I now have a contact for an osteopath here in Lille that uses the craniosacral approach, so I'll be making an appointment! The only problem is that I blew out my calf muscle in training last night, so I'll have to concentrate on recovering from that first. I really like what you wrote about directing the intention simultaneously toward the earth and the horizon. Sometimes I add the image of being pulled backward by an elastic while moving forward. This helps me to maintain central equilibrium. I imagine this while standing in san ti shi as well. Extreme forward intent coupled with the image of being held back...it adds a spring-like quality to the practice. Then I try to use my kinesthetic memory to apply this to my movement during the form. Sometimes I can feel it, but I'm not sure that it's always visible to an observer. I find that Wang Xikui really does this well.
Last edited by Sean on Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sean
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Lille, France

Re: Sun Form section by section

Postby Giles on Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:19 am

Hi Sean,
Ugh, bummer with the calf injury! I wish you a quick and smooth recovery, or as much as possible.
Once the acute phase of injury, lesion, inflammation etc. has passed, then osteopathy/craniosacral can also be great for the last stage of healing and integration, and making it more likely that the injury doesn't repeat.

....... Sometimes I can feel it, but I'm not sure that it's always visible to an observer. I find that Wang Xikui really does this well.

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. Great use of the kua; and his front knee never moves even a centimetre out beyond his foot (which is simply a result of his great alignment, no need for him to 'put the brakes on' to avoid this happening).
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 1364
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany


Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests