the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Three videos are located (scroll down) at https://www.sanctuaryoftao.org/tai-ji-jin-series:

1. Example of using Receiving and Borrowing energies in the application of the Taijiquan 11posture Step Back and Chase Monkey.
2. Example of using Adhering and Sticking energies.
3. Example of using Pushing and Pulling energies.

Excerpt from "Intrinsic Energy The Secret to Mastering Tai Chi:"

Stuart Alve Olson wrote:Most students of Tai Chi have heard stories about classic Tai Chi Masters doing incredible and inexplicable things because of the internal power they’ve cultivated.

These powers have seemed mythical and mysterious, and they have intrigued our imaginations, but there’s never been a clear path for how to attain this level of mastery.

As Stuart said, “When I was with Master T.T. Liang at age 32, I couldn’t believe how at age 82, he was so easily knocking me down. It took me a few years to realize what he was using. I always thought it was something mystical, that I had to get this thing called ‘Qi.’ We throw this Qi word around because it comes off as magical, but it’s really not. As Master Liang said, ‘No, it’s Intrinsic Energy that’s required to master Taijiquan.'

So I practiced these things, solo form, two-person, applications, and studying the old Chinese texts, and then one day he said, ’Ooh, you’ve got Intrinsic Energy.’ It took me 15 years to learn how to further develop these Intrinsic Energies because I didn‘t have this course. I’ve now created what I wish I’d had back then.”

Master Liang used "intrinsic energy" in place of "Jin" as far as I can decipher from his writing.

Qi, obviously, is related but like he's saying it's not the Qi that does it.

I don't think so. T.T. Liang used the term "intrinsic energy" as a more readily understood way of referring to 'Qi' or 'Chi'. I do likewise. He fully understood that the word 'Jin' refers to the various types of internal power which can be expressed using intrinsic energy, not as a generic term for the energy itself.

Years ago Olson wrote a book called The Intrinsic Energies of Tai Chi Chuan (Chen Kung series vol 2).



It's a translation of a section of Chen Yanlin's Taijiquan manual. The section is 論勁 and that could be translated as Essay on Jin. It appears that Olson translates jin as intrinsic energy.

In the book on page 24 Olson writes Chin (intrinsic energy).

Also note that the first book in the series is Cultivating the Chi: The Secrets of Energy and Vitality (Chen Kung series vol 1) - he doesn't translate chi.



FWIW.

Doc Stier wrote:I don't think so. T.T. Liang used the term "intrinsic energy" as a more readily understood way of referring to 'Qi' or 'Chi'. I do likewise. He fully understood that the word 'Jin' refers to the various types of internal power which can be expressed using intrinsic energy, not as a generic term for the energy itself.

I'm sure you're right, it's been a while since I dug into it.

Most people use "intrinsic energy" as a translation for "qi" in Taijiquan.

I've heard "intrinsic strength" for jin, that's an appropriate way to distinguish "common" strength from skilled Tai Chi strength, but personally, I've never liked calling jin "energy".

Recieveing & borrowing, adhering & sticking, pulling & pushing - none of these are energies. All of it are things you DO. They are practiced and understood by something you do. They should be powered by, and express, internal conditions to function well, but that is another thing.

I like the sound of that course - I've really enjoyed his writing/ translating before. The books are great.
notice it was in 2021 though, this course - did anyone do it ? (how did you dig up that link marvin?)
looks like good content - going off the clips and what's written about the course

the cost would of been 900 $ though, ouch.
wonder if it's still available..

cloudz wrote:I like the sound of that course - I've really enjoyed his writing/ translating before. The books are great.
notice it was in 2021 though, this course - did anyone do it ? (how did you dig up that link marvin?)
looks like good content - going off the clips and what's written about the course

the cost would of been 900 $ though, ouch.
wonder if it's still available..

I believe I was searching his name on google. I didn't realize it was in 2021. Apparently, it's still available. One can pay $900 here and watch the video recordings. " So if you can't attend live, you can view the class when you have time. You will have access to the recordings for life."

Shows a lot about the standard of tai chi if people are willing to pay 900 for his stuff
I am yet to see him do anything that impresses me

wayne hansen wrote:Shows a lot about the standard of tai chi if people are willing to pay 900 for his stuff
I am yet to see him do anything that impresses me

Not only that. For me a persona non grata. He came to Taiwan, visited my teacher, stole his staff vid, and sold copies of it in the US. His translations? Meh!

It's a lot of money - wouldn't pay that..
but in terms of hours, weekly for 3 months

not totally unrealistic but definitely higher end rates.. but there's an opportunity there to widen the audience and re price the thing!
if you're reading... 15-20$ for an hour of content is pretty fair.

taiwandeutscher wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:Shows a lot about the standard of tai chi if people are willing to pay 900 for his stuff
I am yet to see him do anything that impresses me

Not only that. For me a persona non grata. He came to Taiwan, visited my teacher, stole his staff vid, and sold copies of it in the US. His translations? Meh!

If one were too google "Intrinsic Energy The Secret to Mastering Tai Chi" "order," they may find a similar situation at $91 or $92.

I've never met Stuart or, for that matter, anyone who has studied with him... but, I did have an unpleasant business experience with him by mail in the early 1990s. He produced a paid subscription quarterly newsletter for about a year called Bamboo Tablet [if aging memory serves?] and I was a subscriber. He sent out a plaintive mass mailout to his subscribers blaming health reasons for the delay in producing latter issues and begging us to re-subscribe and he would do better in the future. I re-subscribed [and I imagine others did as well] on the basis of that letter.

Never another issue after my money order was cashed and never an answer to my follow-up letters of enquiry.

Petty perhaps to judge someone on that basis but I definitely felt 'had' at the time. Honesty and courtesy don't always go hand-in-hand with skill but the first two are important to me.

P.S. Internet video courses are usually a waste of money unless the subscriber is unusually skilled at learning as well as experienced in relevant attributes to what is being studied. Over-priced courses are even more of a waste of money!

He is not well thought of by persons I know within the greater body of Master Liang's students. But then again there's a few CMC folks that hold a grudge against Master Liang for various reasons. Who knows.
I've heard implications of, yes, plagiarism, which... to be fair... Master Liang was also guilty of in his writings, lol.
And you know Cheng Man Ching and Yang Cheng Fu writing together straight up LIED about shit, so... whatever meng.

Many years ago I did, over the course of 4 summers, a week session per summer at Jou Tsung Hwa's Tai Chi Farm and, I could be wrong, but vaguely recall someone telling me that Stuart Alve Olson was then married to one of the late Jou Tsung Hwa's daughters.

I don't know, if true, what his martial arts relationship was with the Jou Tsung Hwa - maybe nothing.