your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby marvin8 on Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:46 am

Bao wrote:I appreciate and have enjoyed practicing common or general types of sparring as in sanda, MMA, kick-boxing, muay thai etc. And I believe that everyone who wants to understand something about fighting should do a decent amount of sparring against various people. But personally, I have lost interest in adapting my tai chi to this kind of fighting style and sports fighting. My personal approach is to focus on more traditional skills and to adapt tai chi to real-life situations and combat, not to sports.

Tim Cartmell (IMAist) on Aug 23, 2022 wrote: But to have a sport with the least amount of rules as possible and it to be worldwide, MMA as a concept has done more to promote and preserve realistic MAs than anything in the last thousand years. It’s that important…. It’s a sport, but it's real fighting. And, it’s well-rounded fighting.
Tim Cartmell (IMAist) in Wu Gong Journal, May-June 1998 wrote:You need to be a well rounded fighter, but knowing a thousand techniques you can do beautifully when there is no real pressure is not nearly as valuable as mastering a few techniques you can actually use in a real fight. It is, however, vital to be exposed to all areas of fighting. In order to be able to maintain mental calm and physical relaxation under pressure, you must be proficient in striking, wrestling and grappling arts. Sparring with skilled, non-cooperative opponents is a must if you hope to be able to use your art in a real fight. Finally, your mind-set and attitude will almost always prove to be the ultimate determinate of your victory or defeat.

"Yang Cheng Fu — The Story of a Cotton Thread"

Mei Ying Sheng Translated by Ted W. Knecht wrote:In the year 1932, Master Yang Cheng Fu and his disciple, Fu Zhong Wen, traveled south to the city of Guang Zhou in Guang Dong Province to teach the art of Taijiquan. One day, a martial arts teacher by the name of Liu and his disciples went to the residence of Master Yang. Upon observing the way in which Liu was dressed and the manner in which he held himself, Master Yang knew that this man’s talents in fighting were extraordinary. Upon meeting Yang Cheng Fu, Liu raised his hands, saluted Master Yang and said: “It is well known that your skills in Taiji are superior and for three generations your family has been without equals. I have especially come here to see your skills.” Master Yang realized Liu was challenging him to a duel and that the conflict would be unavoidable. Master Yang suddenly thought of an idea to prevent a fight but to maintain the code of the martial world (Wu Lin). He told his disciple, Fu Zhong Wen, to go and get out a one foot piece of cotton thread.

Young Fu was shocked when he heard this because the cotton thread was used as a training tool only among the indoor disciples of the Yang style. It was never before shown to outsiders.

Master Yang warmed up by performing “Grasp Sparrow’s Tail” and “Cloud Hands”; thereupon, he took the cotton thread between his thumb and index finger and asked: “Who has the strength of a thousand pounds to tear this piece of thread in half?” Upon hearing this, Liu sneered at Master Yang while sending one of his disciples out to take the challenge. The disciple grabbed the other end of the cotton thread and asked: “When shall we begin?” Master Yang replied by saying: “It is completely up to you.” Following, the disciple fiercely pulled at the thread. Master Yang adhered to his every move. Suddenly the disciple reversed the direction of motion, however, Master Yang, without hesitation, also moved in the same manner.

This went on for several rounds without the disciple being able to tear the thread in two. While the thread was being pulled it remained straight no matter which direction the force was being applied. Liu saw what was occurring and summoned his disciple to step back. After Liu performed several exercises to warm up, he jumped into the air and performed several tornado kicks. Immediately following this, he jumped towards Master Yang as agile as a rabbit and grabbed the other end of the thread. Master Yang was just as agile and moved in the same manner. Without hesitation, Liu jumped back in a retreating maneuover while trying to break the thread; in the same instance, Master Yang followed in Liu’s footsteps preventing the thread from being broken. Afterwards, Liu shot forward as fast as an arrow, then darted to the left and then to the right, moving in all directions. Within all of this motion, both Liu and Master Yang never made contact with each other. The way in which the two moved was similar to a dragon lantern moving in the night. Spectators witnessing the event were astonished by the skill of Yang Cheng Fu. The entire time this was occurring the thread was never broken nor was it even bent. The thread remained straight during the entire match. After a long period of trying to break the thread, Liu was completely out of breath and covered with sweat. Master Yang, on the other hand, was very calm and relaxed without any signs of exhaustion. When the match was over, Liu realized that the skill level of Master Yang was very extraordinary and therefore held a grand banquent in honor of Master Yang. From that day forth, both Liu and Master Yang became very good friends.

In the same way as Master Yang’s grandfather and father did before him, Yang Cheng Fu had developed his skills of understanding energy (Dong Jin) and listening to energy (Ting Jin) to an outstanding skill level. He was able to adhere and yield to every single move his opponent performed and did not expend any energy. Even to this day, the story of how a piece of thread can demonstrate martial skills is told in the martial arts community near the Guang Zhou region. Yang Lu Chan was able to build upon the basics of Chen style old frame Taijiquan and make it more compatible for the common person to learn no matter what his age. At that moment, people termed his style “Yang family Taijiquan”. The Yang style passed through reform and constant improvement during the first two generations of father and son. The formal standardization of the style finally occurred when it came into Yang Cheng Fu’s hands. The postures became wide and comfortable; the structure was strict and demanding; the body was upright and erect; and the movements were harmoniously flowing, light, agile, and rooted.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:29 am

Bob wrote:
Not sure if he is the same guy but the combination of learning both hun yuan taiji and baji looks sensible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5vTDUjpIQ4&t=6s



wow Bob,
that guys Baji form/ fajin is the absolute nuts! :o
thanks
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:44 am

Bob wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzhvvA5VKzM&t=240s



Not sure if he is the same guy but the combination of learning both hun yuan taiji and baji looks sensible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5vTDUjpIQ4&t=6s



Saw that ;D

Would not agree as to learning both, although my own interaction with baji, is limited.. :-\

In Taiwan where me and one of my students trained , there was a local baji teacher...
Interesting enough he mentioned his teacher had told him to always seek song, and more song..
My student translating...:)

As to why it might not be a good idea...

the presumption that it's sensible.

Might mean the student has mastered the basic idea of one system of movement, augmenting it with another seeking something more or different.
Kinda depends on level and intent...how deeply one has practiced and what the practice is based on....

Not a good idea if one is training with a teacher, to go to another teacher trying to lean a different skill set....If one still wants to remain
a student of the teacher....

@marvin8 ;)

Yang Cheng Fu had developed his skills of understanding energy (Dong Jin) and listening to energy (Ting Jin) to an outstanding skill level.
He was able to adhere and yield to every single move his opponent performed and did not expend any energy.


The first clip illustrates this quite well....there is no waiting...:)

The teacher talks about this, he is moving according to the students "intention" leading the students "jin" as it travels though the students body...
If one can do or understand this, it helps to explain the reactions that some question. :)
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:55 am

I was able to access an old youtube account of mine from the youtube username thread on RSF
came across this in my favourites - will be looking through some more and post some good ones.
(for some reason when I embed them, show as unavailable ??? )
links are too old perhaps

Zhaobao throwing and tuishou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8U8Q_- ... A&index=36
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:10 am

Shanghai Wu style
nice mix of skills and technique application from push hands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2IA94q ... ZA&index=6
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby Bob on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:20 am

Windwalker:

Much of the sensibility would lie in who one's teacher is and what one's intent would be - it may not be an issue of mastering both systems.

A teacher like Wang Peisheng comes to mind regarding his mastery of Wu style taiji, bagua and elements of bajiquan.
In some ways the clip reminds me of how (in our line) we learned both piqua and baji without the melding but alas sensibilities lie in the eye of the beholder LOL
Last edited by Bob on Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:20 am

This guy is pretty great
Wei Lun Huang, think it's Yang style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0JcOyv ... A&index=12
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:55 am

Bob wrote:
Much of the sensibility would lie in who one's teacher is and what one's intent would be - it may not be an issue of mastering both systems.

A teacher like Wang Peisheng comes to mine regarding his mastery of Wu style taiji, bagua and elements of bajiquan.

In some ways the clip reminds me of how (in our line) we learned both piqua and baji without the melding but alas sensibilities lie in the eye of the beholder LOL



Interesting mentioning Wang Peisheng...

One of his students used to visit train with my teacher and push with us..He was pretty rough but skilled...
Nice guy, funny watching what happened to those thinking they could "try" him

Image

He can be seen here the first demonstration


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsBJRTPPJc&t=3s


My own teacher had studied other arts, was said to have mastered bagau before meeting his teacher

Master Zhang, and his Taichi master had a contest to compare skills. Master Zhang, lost in such a way that he knew that this was what he was looking for in his own martial path, Master Zhang, decided to follow his Taichi Master right after the match.

At first the master did not want to teach him, but after awhile agreed when he saw the sincerity of Master Zhang, He agreed to teach him with the following conditions:



One of the requirements was not learn from another teacher or practice anything else.

Any way as you mentioned to each his own...

For people I work with many have decades practice in taiji, very hard for them to drop it...

One of the people training from me, had also practiced with a famous teacher ...I had asked him about why he practiced with me

He said " My teacher taught taiji,,,but didn't know taiji....You do".

Not that I claim any skill,,,,only to illustrate the stories of old are very true of skill sets but are not common...
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:34 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-wvgOLa0yI

Shifu Zhao Guohong

From Hebei province in Inner Mongolia and grew up during the cultural revolution.
Moved to Beijing with his family, enjoyed martial arts, and taiji,,,
studied taiji from Master Zhang Yulaing.


One of my taiji bothers.... :)
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby robert on Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36 pm

Regarding baji. When I saw The Grandmaster I thought the fight with The Razor could have been taijiquan.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pusJT1UTzT8

When I found out it was baji I watched a video on baji. Part of the video interviewed Adam Hsu and he mentioned that when he was studying baji there was something about it he just couldn't get and his baji teacher sent him to study taiji with a friend. I thought that was interesting.
Last edited by robert on Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby SCMT on Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:21 pm

Bao wrote:This one is sort of interesting as Ian here improvises a whole demonstration on the go against a MMA practitioner he hasn't even met before. If you haven't watched it before, don't forget to put on the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDIb9TWy-78




That is Ian Sinclair, from Canada, at least I think his first name is Ian. I believe he was a student of Liang, Shou-yu
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby Bao on Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:55 am

SCMT wrote:That is Ian Sinclair, from Canada, at least I think his first name is Ian. I believe he was a student of Liang, Shou-yu


Correct.

Ken Gullette made a two part interview with Ian where he talks about his teacher Liang Shouyu amongst other stuff.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... HQAAAAAQCg

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... HQAAAAAQCg
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby marvin8 on Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:22 am

Starting at 3:22,

softclub
Sep 9, 2010

Master Wang Naixiang studied taiji and bagua under his father, the late Grandmaster Wang Peisheng. Here, he teaches his students taiji pushing hands: do not use force, use the mind instead; do not resist, follow instead. Master Wang is based in Beijing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUHHv5by2XY&t=3m22s

Click CC for Eng explanations:

Taiji starting at 2:04,

Master Fang Tai Chi & Kung Fu
Apr 24, 2022

What is the relationship between push hands and sanshou in Tai Chi, how to use dots (points), lines and planes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGri7Y1oobI&t=2m4s


Taiji starting at 1:52,

Master Fang Tai Chi & Kung Fu
Apr 27, 2022

Tai Chi Fighting, Sanshou practice practice, explanation of the direction and purpose of Sanda


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM53YCsKSao&r=1m52s

Taiji starting at 2:04,

Master Fang Tai Chi & Kung Fu
May 24, 2022

A variety of actual combat usages of Taijiquan, late strike and preemptive use


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0LkRO7fgiM

Master Fang Tai Chi & Kung Fu
Nov 26, 2021

Inheritance of Chen Style Taijiquan: Chen Fake-Li Jingwu-Qin Wenli-Xie Cunfang, practical application of boxing method

Tai Chi Kung Fu,Li Jingwu Chen Style Taijiquan dismantling, boxing application actual combat drill


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTJYI9X0K68
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:14 am

you definitely don't want to be grabbing that last guys arms like that do you... phew ;D
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your favourite (taiji) application/ technique clips ?

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:57 am

just watching some more of that last guy, he's big and impressively powerful.. skilled application as well. Bet his partners are crying our for some soft mats! sheesh.

No nonsense Chen style, funny how you pretty much never see Chen guys doing the jedi bits isn't it.
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