Bao wrote:cloudz wrote:and this isn't 'point sparring'. One guy is feeding the other reacting. it's one step technique training, that all traditional arts use, only he's reacting freely and spontaneously. Does it look more like sparring than normal, probably. But that's not because points are involved. It's would be fairer to describe it as a sports style sparring drill perhaps. I'd also add, that's a far less terrible thing than folks may envisage, but ok. not your cup of tea no problem.
Maybe I was unfair, IDK. I am not fond of practicing apps in this kind of a common sparring environment.
Jumping/moving around/showing quick footwork, trading punches, etc. is what I call sparring.
sport doesn't have to be your bag.
But The either or thing though - that's what's not my bag. I'll take what I see as useful and that's it.
Personally I like to have both this type of active footwork and a more static / reactive type, as well as perhaps less vertical movement (though I don't see any particular excessive amount here - keeping movement closer to the ground and horizontal. I like to be flexible, versatile and as multi dimensional as possible.
this kind of active mobility is really useful, it lends itself to agile reactions. Being too static can give yourself problems and should be used situationally - as all footwork. And of course it may just be that someone goes for you when you're not expecting it. Footwork is something i like to focus a fair bit - it's a pretty big deal IMO, especially if you're a smaller guy, which I am.
Footwork is good, agility is good. But compare with the Ren Zhongxin sparring clip. He can protect himself very well, but he is calm, rooted, keeping sunk. Mr Ren always has a certain calmness while following and adapting to his opponents at every inch, his timing is great. What is common in sparring or competition might not always be good for tai chi. If you move swiftly, you need to have a way to regain you stability, moving with stability, or moving in and out of that stability. Tai Chi jin use whole body movement, the whole body coordinated together from the feet in one movement.
Without commenting the individual person's own skills in the video you posted, I could say that in
that video, and in that particular type
of practice, I can't see anything that would lead to higher tai chi skills or higher general martial arts skills. Compared to what I strive to develop in my own tai chi, I believe that the focus is wrong, and that's all.
ok fair enough and well stated. No joke had a feeling that clip would be brought up in comparison. I noticed it as well..
As i said it is a type of drill I like, It is like attack defence, but also more specifically grappling vs. striking - It became my favourite drill.
Without going back to it I'm fairly sure he doesn't strike back.
Admittedly, I tend to do more takedowns/ knockdown, or used to. I'm just gearing up for getting into more regular work.. perhaps there will be more videos from me in the not so distant future.
The clip is fine and great, and maybe I'm prone to defend my friends and guys that have been teachers to me, and will be, more than necessary. As i said he really doesn't need defending and that's one type of work he's capable of.. The other clip/other thread shows what i think is a more traditional approach to application and he does a pretty good job of it. The techniques are good IMO, and there's no pre movement of the feet in this kind of sparring/ sports fighting style style.
He teaches both.
Circling back to the clip you used for comparison; I think there's a couple of - what I think are important caveats - and these aren't criticisms, just observations. that I think would make a difference.
The attacker gives a good amount of momentum to work with, not every time, but he commits and kind of unbalances himself - gives good force that can be borrowed.. The skill of the borrower comes into play of course so I'm not suggesting that's not in play, but the attacker gives more than say I would for example.
He doesn't really have to work too much to get entries, he's given them.. I would expect to work a bit harder for control - I tend to expect strike that come in and out real quick and the thrower to be able to be pretty stable.
The other point is the defender is a significantly larger man, and therefore feels relatively safe, and the attacker isn't so much coming in on angles; forcing the defender to adjust a bit more than he does.
Faced with a guy who's moving around, to find opening and or create openings, a bigger guy who's force will be an issue and more of a danger may well change things. As would the need or requirement to strike back at the same time. That's not really what this drill or demo is about; but tht doesn't mean these things are not or should be a consideration.
I made the point in the last post about how it's situational - and I stand by it. But sure, we all train with different goals.