Mizner vs a peer....

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Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:28 am

As an antidote to all the compliant student clips..and grandiose 'chi' movies.

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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby GrahamB on Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:38 am

In the words of Nate Diaz..

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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby Dmitri on Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:15 am

Thanks, George. He's clearly very good at the standard PH game, but... yeah.

My favorite PH clip is very similar in nature; it is of several world-renown masters pushing with one another - all with big, big names and some whose students fly about the room at their pinky finger wiggles - all of them looking roughly like this encounter.

(Defenders of His Majesty's unquestionable awesomeness chiming in with proper explanations in 3... 2...)
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby Bao on Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:07 am

Dmitri wrote:My favorite PH clip is very similar in nature; it is of several world-renown masters pushing with one another - all with big, big names and some whose students fly about the room at their pinky finger wiggles - all of them looking roughly like this encounter.


Know what clip/clips you mean... Yeah, some people would say that it looks rough. But still, I don't believe Mizner comes anywhere close to those masters. Just wanted to point out that there's a big difference in skill.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby everything on Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:31 am

olympic judo looks even rougher
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby marvin8 on Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:41 am

Dmitri wrote:Thanks, George. He's clearly very good at the standard PH game, but... yeah.

My favorite PH clip is very similar in nature; it is of several world-renown masters pushing with one another - all with big, big names and some whose students fly about the room at their pinky finger wiggles - all of them looking roughly like this encounter.

(Defenders of His Majesty's unquestionable awesomeness chiming in with proper explanations in 3... 2...)

Sifu Mark Rasmus
Mar 9, 2012

Li Enjiu vs. Unknown.

Wei Shuren vs. Men Huifeng.

Li Bingci vs. Lin Mogen.

Liu Chengde vs. Unknown.

Xin Yuhe vs. Men Huifeng


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4T4r_TDvmI
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:03 am

Was watching that old masters clip the other week, there's a really class moment where Lin Mogen the Wu guy sends the Yang guy flying out. Lovely!

around 8.35
he really had the upper hand in that match up. nice skill.

At the start of that match it was a bit funny, it looked like the Yang guy was showing a lot of reverence to his opponent, it's like he almost knew the Wu guy was going to be too good for him.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby Giles on Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:25 am

On the one hand: Interesting to see Mizner in this context. Quite solid, but not so magical here ;)
On the other hand: It was 14 years ago, so one can argue that he has probably progressed a lot since then. Or since hit stratospheric heights ::)
(I know I've improved a lot over the last 14 years, irrespective of how I compare to other people).
So it doesn't really say much about his skills now, one way or the other.
If Mizner would engage with a few experienced people who are not his students and/or not in a carefully structured and commercially intended format, and then agree for the video to be released whatever, then I'd respect that a lot more. But I guess he can do just fine without my unstinting respect.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby everything on Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:42 am

in 14 years, I'm sure I've gotten worse at everything, not better. assuming he got a lot better, an old video could just be that. an interesting old video.

whatever the skills of someone in something "different", it seems we'll never be satisfied, lol. until someone can combine all of mma with all of ima and be a new YLC. but this isn't likely to be happen for so many reasons such as

* already too hard to be top of the mma pile
* nobody really trains "ima" or any "neigong"
* the people who do aren't the "athletes" likely to be good at mma in the first place
* on top of it, people seem to get their "ima" and "neigong" abilities late in life.
so to satisfy that perfect venn diagram piece won't happen.

it doesn't really logically compute that if you find some "ima" skills, that you'd better be able to defeat Prime Fedor or it's no good, any more than if you learn to jab, you'd better to be able to defeat Prime Fedor, or you might as well give up. or if you can't kick a ball like Messi, you may as well quit now... :P :-\ ::)
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:29 am

Giles wrote:On the one hand: Interesting to see Mizner in this context. Quite solid, but not so magical here ;)
On the other hand: It was 14 years ago, so one can argue that he has probably progressed a lot since then. Or since hit stratospheric heights ::)
(I know I've improved a lot over the last 14 years, irrespective of how I compare to other people).
So it doesn't really say much about his skills now, one way or the other.
If Mizner would engage with a few experienced people who are not his students and/or not in a carefully structured and commercially intended format, and then agree for the video to be released whatever, then I'd respect that a lot more. But I guess he can do just fine without my unstinting respect.


well that is an argument that does get touted, he improved a ton since hence he really can reign supreme... but it's kind of nonsense when you think about it.
what's the other guy been doing since; watching netflix and eating pizza the whole time ?

You have improved, I have improved, and yes no doubt Adam has too if he's been training the same way as we all must.. to... improve..
In the end, it's always all relative.

There's almost a "limit". well not a limit per se, but the incremental improvements get smaller and harder to gain the longer you go. surely that's logical. the more you need to push harder and test yourself. Does it look like he's going out looking for people bigger and or better than him to push him around. Other wrestlers or grapplers from other styles ?

Hardly.

When we come up with people who are round about equal to it goes something like this. He's good surely, I would not deem to say otherwise. He's not without equal, that much I can say, then and now.
But his marketing gives off the wrong impression about what he's capable of - especially to inexperienced folks and those already inclined to be looking for the "special skills", to put it kindly. The Woo woo as some like to say :D
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:40 am

The thing u all miss is his students were reacting the same way to how they do
now 14 years ago
Last edited by wayne hansen on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:46 am

marvin8 wrote:
Dmitri wrote:Thanks, George. He's clearly very good at the standard PH game, but... yeah.

My favorite PH clip is very similar in nature; it is of several world-renown masters pushing with one another - all with big, big names and some whose students fly about the room at their pinky finger wiggles - all of them looking roughly like this encounter.

(Defenders of His Majesty's unquestionable awesomeness chiming in with proper explanations in 3... 2...)

Sifu Mark Rasmus
Mar 9, 2012

Li Enjiu vs. Unknown.

Wei Shuren vs. Men Huifeng.

Li Bingci vs. Lin Mogen.

Liu Chengde vs. Unknown.

Xin Yuhe vs. Men Huifeng


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4T4r_TDvmI


:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pip97t50XbE
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby marvin8 on Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:32 pm

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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:11 pm

marvin8 wrote:Any play-by-play commentary on these sequences?

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eqJUy2usgM





Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4T4r_TDvmI



Some general observations....both clips

The teachers are skilled, problem is with using a format, a "practice" to develop a skill set...
as some type of indication of skill.

A skill that is part of an over all set of skills dependent on it used in "free hand" ie sparring ect...

Adam, seems pretty chill, the other guy took some cheap shots which even then did not go well...
He "Adam" seems to be adhering to his principles of practice...

The video posted "Jan 5, 2016 Traffic Garden Tai Chi Quan Alliance / 交通公园太极拳联盟. Every Sunday 10.30am - 1.00pm."

And now reposted ?

The teachers in the 2nd clip seem to be restrained and maybe more
importantly conditioned by a format used for "practice"

Not a fan of whats called push hands,,

seems to be the coin of the realm....
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:04 am

well at least it is a coin!
the majority of demonstrations you like to post are just fake currency.

Case in point; that old boy demonstrating on his student that you re-posted in the training Both Yang and Chen style thread.. Which came with a philosophical monologue, in the same post, that had ZERO connection to anything martially applicable or related. Contrast that with the (martial) Classic posted by Robert, that was clearly written by a Chinese Boxer talking about Chinese Boxing.

It's so far off the mark it's practically sinful.
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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