Mizner vs a peer....

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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby windwalker on Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:41 am

cloudz wrote:well at least it is a coin!
the majority of demonstrations you like to post are just fake currency.

Case in point; that old boy demonstrating on his student that you re-posted in the training Both Yang and Chen style thread.. Which came with a philosophical monologue, in the same post, that had ZERO connection to anything martially applicable or related. Contrast that with the (martial) Classic posted by Robert, that was clearly written by a Chinese Boxer talking about Chinese Boxing.

It's so far off the mark it's practically sinful.


That "old boy" ;D " Gao Zhuangfei 高壮飞 Beijing Wustyle. Student of Wang Peisheng 王培生 who was a student of Yang Yuting"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH74Cqb5wAM&t=221s




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNBM2WsMLW8&t=13s

Does Wang Pheisheng, know what he's talking about,,,,he mention's the same things along with a similar demo

@Robert,

Your name was mentioned as one with a discerning eye,,
care to share some thoughts on the teachers in question :)
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:02 am

lineage kudos only goes so far. knowledge of a tradition and intellectual pursuit doesn't always equate to martial ability, neither does many technique demonstrations. push hands or otherwise.
all any of us can do here is call things as we see them and share our opinions and tastes, as they arise.
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby windwalker on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:12 am

marvin8 wrote:Any play-by-play commentary on these sequences?

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eqJUy2usgM

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4T4r_TDvmI



Coin of the realm


You asked for commentary,,,,posted my thoughts
It's the coin of the realm meaning that in taiji circles it's a general accepted way of comparing skill sets without fighting.

Unfortunately, it can lead to false conclusions concerning martial ability ie fighting...as shown by some of the public
examples of those that do step out of the frame work of push hands...

Interesting enough fails seem to be accepted while anything showing the contrary is not....
More so if it happens to be someone like Adam.... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6E9lGowYyI&t=564s

The famous Hong Junsheng Chen taijiquan successor Liu Chengde, a generation of martial arts master. Octogenarian can royal, preach martial example. Introduce appreciation of his real kung fu. -- Chinese folk sports, internal training and external training.



There are many unwritten accepted customs and rule sets...
which sometimes get challenged by those seeking to confirm what they believe,
curiously enough they also do not practice....

In demos as the 2nd clip of the famous masters, they are kind of trapped in that constrained by the rule sets they would not do what they might do
in different setting assuming they really have the skill sets and experience to do so..

Often what happens, falling what they would expect to happen, normally happens in a "training" environment
they will try to illicit a response being put in a competitive setting among others of equal or greater skill .

Those looking from the outside in most cases will ask why it doesn't look the way it does with their students....

case in point..

Happened to see a taiji group playing push hands in one of the many local parks in Taiwan.

Stopping to watch and practice taiji away from the group.

One of the students seeing me, spoke in English introducing himself and then me to his teacher. The same student who could speak English suggested me and his teacher, touch hands, a friendly test and comparison of taiji skill sets.

Teacher Chen, agreed smiling in his warm friendly way.

When we touched hands both of us did not move, able to sense each others movements inside.
Understanding this, we both laughed and broke contact.
His students quite surprised and mystified as to what happened when there was no outer movement.

Teacher Chens site

https://blog.xuite.net/mapletaichi/twblog/134072638



We both laughed and shared some tea, and lunch afterwards.
Becoming friends, spent some time talking about taiji, he sharing some books he had written,

I giving him some VHS tapes of Master Zhang, my teacher in China.

Some 12 years later in Hsinchu, Taiwan we would meet again.
Sadly at the time he was battling cancer.
A battle he would lose sometime in 2015

May his spirit rest in peace..
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:40 am

ok great
we don't have to share the same value system to share an interest in TCC. We ultimately want different things from it and to move in different directions, and that's fine with me.
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby everything on Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:55 am

Not sure there really is a coin or a realm when people don’t agree or realize what’s good and what’s bad.

We seem to only agree when something is very, very bad.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:02 am

speaking of bad, just saw this.. has to be my favourite so far.. really need to stop watching this crap, it's going to addle my mind.
where does he find these people ?

I was looking at his facebook, I'm truly surprised at some folks..
it's insanity, the rabbit hole is deep. conditioning, belief, the desire to be part of the magic.
a master mesmeriser.

the whole thing he's built up is just epic.

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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:07 am

everything wrote:Not sure there really is a coin or a realm when people don’t agree or realize what’s good and what’s bad.

We seem to only agree when something is very, very bad.


We ?

as in you and me
me and Graham
Dimitri and Graham.. Wayne, Possibly Giles.

but clearly there is a very large group that think our bad is really the good, the very good even.
how on earth can you even begin to deal with that ???

I think you can't, it's better to walk away and just do your thing.
or you end up that (awesome) guy, ranting on your youtube channel about fighters..
branded as "haters", haters gonna hate yo. Hate isn't for me, that much I do know.

they're right of course, but who's listening?
the people with the good classes struggle to get people through the door much of the time, and these guys fill the seminar halls globally.
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby everything on Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:48 am

welllll you can't via talking on a forum, I suppose. there is certainly some stuff that people think is "bad" that some of us have experienced as "good" or at the very least "very interesting". ??? :-\

"what the heck is this" and a lot of laughing is the best. yes it's in sports and that includes combat sports, but it's there even more in "art". every 1 out of 100 kicks, I can kick a nice kick that Messi can do 99/100. and there is "art" in what he does, but I can at least grasp at some level what he's doing. some of "art" is beyond that. that's what I'd consider "good" or "interesting". and that "art" can sometimes appear to "bad". the IYKYK thing really applies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:01 pm

I like and admire the art of people like Mohamed Ali
Sugar Ray Leanord
Rikson Gracie
Machida
Connor Mcgreggor
Mayweather
Jon Jones
Lomachenko
Anderson Silva
George St Pierre

and others..

what he's doing in that last clip isn't 'interesting' it's bullshit.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby everything on Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:42 pm

love those guys as well. what pro athletes can do is dumbfounding to me. and not saying "different" is better, or that I can get to any kind of good level. just "different" is crazy interesting... it literally makes you laugh like Werdum did in that one vid. WTH in a good way. It probably sounds like I'm saying "you guys gotta try this drug", lol. It probably is a little like that.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby Tom on Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:03 pm

cloudz wrote:Was watching that old masters clip the other week, there's a really class moment where Lin Mogen the Wu guy sends the Yang guy flying out. Lovely!

around 8.35
he really had the upper hand in that match up. nice skill.

At the start of that match it was a bit funny, it looked like the Yang guy was showing a lot of reverence to his opponent, it's like he almost knew the Wu guy was going to be too good for him.


Lin Mogen was a Yang taijiquan practitioner. The guy he threw out, Li Bingci, was a “northern” Wu taijiquan practitioner (teacher Yang Yuting).
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:00 am

Tom wrote:
cloudz wrote:Was watching that old masters clip the other week, there's a really class moment where Lin Mogen the Wu guy sends the Yang guy flying out. Lovely!

around 8.35
he really had the upper hand in that match up. nice skill.

At the start of that match it was a bit funny, it looked like the Yang guy was showing a lot of reverence to his opponent, it's like he almost knew the Wu guy was going to be too good for him.


Lin Mogen was a Yang taijiquan practitioner. The guy he threw out, Li Bingci, was a “northern” Wu taijiquan practitioner (teacher Yang Yuting).


ah.. thanks Tom, so it was the other way round..
interesting, not sure how arrived at what I described - I think it was the way he held his body with a lean perhaps.
cool.
Last edited by cloudz on Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby GrahamB on Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:23 am

Look, the crazies have to go somewhere. The Miz gives them a home. It's a win win!
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Re: Mizner vs a peer....

Postby cloudz on Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:38 am

GrahamB wrote:Look, the crazies have to go somewhere. The Miz gives them a home. It's a win win!


there is that........
(will we go to hell for this)
;D
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