the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

wayne hansen wrote:Fighting on 1 inch poles
I would like to see that

If there is a mistake it's mine..might have misunderstood
What he meant was that the diameter of the pole did not support the whole foot....some 5' or 6 ' off the ground..

He said very clearly when they fell off chances of groin injury was very high and common

He mentioned they used to be able to preform fighting sets on them....

As you may know the plum flower style, famous for its training methods....
Many other styles seem to have borrowed some of their training methodologies


Interesting enough plum flower mantis taught in Korea, also used the same method the diameter is quite small no more than 3 or 4 inches.
Only a couple of inches in length...same idea regarding stepping, placement of the foot...ect...

no groin injury, if one slipped or was knocked off

this is one you have to be careful with, double edged swords persist.
JW will tell you a cross step felt can spell a problem.

risk:reward

and it's not coincidental to rely on sensitivity to sneak in unawares. that's kinda the point one might say.
creepy does it.

cloudz wrote:this is one you have to be careful with, double edged swords persist.
JW will tell you a cross step felt can spell a problem.

risk:reward

and it's not coincidental to rely on sensitivity to sneak in unawares. that's kinda the point one might say.
creepy does it.

A cross step isn't necessarily a bad thing, you're essentially in a lady's horse stance there which can be just as firm and strong as anything if it's done intentionally.

just sharing some thoughts for free, seeing as I have practiced it extensively both in pattern and live. No, not a bad thing, but I would think becoming aware of certain situations that could arise is helpful. YMMV

at the beginning it can feel awkward but you get to work on that. Maintaining contact a set way, stepping one way and turning the torso the other can be harder than it looks. When it comes to usage, relative positioning rules as does being ahead.

I would never put anyone off from giving something a go. but this one is a little tricky (imho) to nail down well, and being taught by a qualified teacher is most advisable.

sweeps, think sweeps. have fun, enjoy the drill. Sever Star is one I would suggest to check out first from the HK Wu/Wudang system, if you haven't done so already.

The cross step is only executed at the right point in the hand circle
There is another pushing exercise done with the same hand pattern called the square or small circle
It is similar to some Ba Kua exercises I learned
It is all about timing and displacement

Mistaking the technique for the goal...

Has no one else here ever taken any of this (and other) material out of the box and really put the screws to it?

I figured out how to train Nine Temple Qigong routine as a way to develop tai chi body and basic tai chi fighting method based on the 8 and Five. I figured out how to develop a comprehensive tai chi groundfighting set as a way to develop tai chi body and basic tai chi fighting method based on the 8 and Five. I've trained people who have tested their learning of that material in various open competition formats and a dozen of those people having competed in MMA. And I'm an absolute Nobody in the tai chi world.


And here, in this thread, pops up the tired old notion that a 'qualified teacher' is needed in order for someone to attain any kind of understanding of what the material represents.

The only understanding one will ever gain from training someone else's model is how to repeat a dead pattern.

It's understandable that dude doesn't know the difference between range and distance, or footwork and stepping, as it pertains to fightiness, because they're distracted by what they see instead of finding out what they know...mistaking the technique for the goal

hey Bruce,

Maybe it just me, but I found it awkward at first and it definitely helped having a teacher run me through it to get some of the intricacies.
I'm sure i was better off with his help than without it.

surely it's ok to say that, no ?

As i said, not trying to put anyone off trying, and yea... we go live.
sheesh.

Wayne
both the advancing steps have your stance crossed.
I have no problem stepping in that way in live situations if there's an opening for it; but as a push hands drill, I can't say this is a favourite of mine.
No biggie, we can't all like them all the same. depending on the size of your partner too; the distance plays a part, the way they step and so on.. Sometimes I felt my stance was a bit narrow and felt unstable at times; particularly on the second step across. Of course you learn to adjust and make the best of it. Just not a favourite.

I didn’t like it at first but like with all non feeestyle pushing you need to practice it enough under a good teacher to see why it is there

cloudz wrote:hey Bruce,

Maybe it just me, but I found it awkward at first and it definitely helped having a teacher run me through it to get some of the intricacies.
I'm sure i was better off with his help than without it.

surely it's ok to say that, no ?

Sure

More than a few times, I've spent one hour, twice a week, showing a total noob Nine Palace routine and 3 Ships stepping for 3 months (roughly 24 hours total) which gave that newb enough of an understanding that they could repeat that training with their own newb and impart at least as much understanding as I imparted - and likely more since the first newb would have six months of training the material after training their newb. That's been my experience with the people I've trained with. None of us were 'qualified teachers'....

3 Ships makes it live.

I agree with what you wrote to Wayne regards the relative size of the people practicing it. All things being equal, the shorter/smaller person will have certain advantages at the second step and returning to point. The real depth of the exercise is borne out once people start using grips and wraps to contain their partner.

I just came across this
Watch the stepping

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=qC1gEa

wayne hansen wrote:I just came across this
Watch the stepping

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=qC1gEa

Very interesting. Is that actual taijiquan or just happens to be the same thing in a western system?

I thought it was western

The wudang mountain training, i.e. not "practical tai chi" wudang, I've seen use the 9 palace stepping as a more conceptual thing. The eight trigrams represent the shapes and transformations of power, and smooth stepping between them would mean being able to transform from one to another, i.e. defense and offence in perpetual exchange while moving. I bet there are more ways to use the philosophical ideas to build your training upon.