Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby Bhassler on Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:13 pm

In my experience, the Dong family system is excellent when taught correctly. If someone has to go outside of the curriculum for anything except ground fighting (AFAIK), then it's likely they (or their teacher) weren't taught the full system.
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 pm

I learned two Tung fast forms
Thé mechanics are very different to the slow form
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby origami_itto on Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:22 am

Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.

I really didn't think much of the stuff just watching it, mainly students.....

But practicing it and getting just a tiny bit of personal instruction occasionally and I'm honestly in love with the stuff. I feel like this last year since I started buckling down I've made substantial progress. Still not fully in the body under pressure. More horse stance...

really though, I've just been focusing on the first section of his simplified form this year, basically your standard Yang sequence, but starts with a GST (peng, lu, ji, an) left instead of a Ward Off/parting horses mane, has a left and a right side play guitar, and has an extra punch between the last brush knee and the parry punch. Feeling pretty good about it. My legs in particular are about 1000 times better than they were a year ago.
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby dacheng on Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:08 am

nicklinjm wrote:I noticed that in Zhao's version of the form, compared to Shanghai Hao group, he sinks deeper into the stances, moves are more 'obvious', kicks are done fast, and also there is even some fajin near the end.

Care to comment on the differences? Another case of gongfu requirements being toned down by later generations to make it easier to learn over time?


It seems that the Shanghai Hao form is kind of a variant modified/simplified by Hao Shaoru around 1950s/1960s. All the branches in Guangfu, Handan, Xingtai area practice more or less like what we do at Zhai school, fast kicks and jumps in the form, some additional fa jin practice or some fa jin included in forms. Most schools start from medium frame - medium level stances and only at more advanced level make the stances higher and shorter. You can see that this is standard not only for those lines coming more directly from Li family, but also from Hao Weizhen, even from his son Hao Yueru. Only what comes from his grandson and is practiced in Shanghai is different.

Showing more from our curricullum, here again Zhao Xiaoqing demonstrating "13 sequences continuous sword". Continuous means that after completing the 13 sequences you turn around and repeat them, and this can be done many times, resembling Xingyiquan practice. And acually, it is quite interesting, this Xingyiquan connection... Some time ago one of my friends who learned mostly Xingyiquan from a Chinese teacher in Poland started Wu/Hao style with us. When it came to learning 13 continuous sword, he noticed that it is very similiar to what he learned as part of his Xingyi curriculum. He demonstrated it, and yes, it was basically the same form, only with small differences. His teacher was mainly doing sports wushu, but learned Xingyi and Bagua among others from Sun Zhijun, but not only. So I'm not quite sure in which branch of Xingyi this form is practiced, but the interesting fact that what we do in Wu style is the same form. Of course we know that as for weapons, only long pole/spear is related to Chen family, while sword and sabre where adopted from other sources. But nobody I know is able to tell from what sources. Anyway in our case it seems be related to Xingyiquan. I say in our case, because in different lines of Wu/Hao they have different sword forms. Even in Guangfu, some teach a sword form which they say is a result of mixing sword and sabre forms, and abandoning sabre practice. In Hao lines again, they have completely different, much longer sword form.

And this 13 continuous sword also have two variants. In some schools they practice shorter, just 13 sequences, but what we do is 7 sequences more - because what is called starting sequence is quite complex and actually consists of 7 sequences. So usually when we practice, we do the starting sequence (7 sequences), 13 main sequences, turning around, repeating 13 mains sequences, turning around and completing the form.

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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby dacheng on Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:10 am

The newest clip by master Zhai Weichuan - basic excercises, also known as huobu zhuang (alive step post). The basic practice is about repeating any of those movements many times, then you start mixing them in any order, creating kind of an improvised form (like mixed shi li in yiquan).

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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby origami_itto on Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:52 am

Alex Dong posted this link today
Stories of Dong Ying Jie's Hao Style Master Li Baoyu
http://wulinmingshi.com/2021/09/11/stor ... -li-baoyu/
Hao Taiji, also known as Kaihe in my hometown, is the first Taiji style we practiced. Today, we practice the Hao strong for internal strength development along with our Qigong exercises, the Yang Taiji for softness and fluidity, and we have fast and Fajin forms to go with a variety of weapons. While keeping the traditions of this ancient art and the martial aspects, we also are built on friendship, compassion and fun. To be able to protect ourselves from attacks of the mind, spirit and energy are much more likely than any physical attacks.
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby windwalker on Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:55 am

When the two came to a clearing in the small wood, Li asked Dong to do two repetitions of the taiji form. After watching, Li shook his head and said: “Your postures are too rigid, you need to use intention (yi), not brute force (li). Once you can do that, you will be able to do anything you want.”

He took out a cotton thread from his pocket, and gently chuckled: “Yingjie, can you break this thread?” Dong laughed and said: “I can break even a length of hemp rope; this kind of cotton thread I could break into two pieces in one breath!” Li Baoyu smiled and said: “Is that right? Let’s see, shall we!” So saying, he gave one end of the cotton thread to Dong, and held the other end himself.

Dong jerked the thread hard. Keeping close hold of the thread, Li stretched his arms to follow Dong’s movement; Dong tried yanking upwards, downwards and sideways, but no matter how Dong pulled the cotton thread, Li maintained his hold on the thread and just followed. After what seemed like several minutes of exertion, Dong had not even managed to pull the thread taut, never mind break it.

Dong blushed and said profusely: “Ashamed, Master, I cannot break it. ” With a meaningful look in Dong’s direction, Li said: “It’s not that you don’t have enough strength, but that your gongfu is not refined. Taiji is born of wuji, the mother of yin and yang. When there is movement, the passive and active become distinct; in stillness, they return to being indistinguishable. Neither going too far nor not far enough, comply and bend then engage and extend. [The opponent] is hard while I am soft – this is called yielding.

If he moves fast, I quickly respond, and if his movement is slow, I leisurely follow. Although the changes are endless, the principle is consistent throughout. “Li’s words, quoted from the taiji classics, were a revelation to Dong and deepened his understanding of the essence of taiji.



master Li Baoyu

Interesting stories...

The cotton thread used again in testing. :)
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby chinwoo1956 on Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:45 am

Hi

Just a few comments?.

Surely the art that you practice must be trained according to the theory and methods laid down for its fighting skills.

Does it really matter whether its postures are high or low? or the movements are in the correct order or even how they look in a book ?.

The Hao family 96 form was produced for the book, its not the true form or training methods that are passed down to disciples ( in door students ).

There are many different training skills that you would not know, because they have not been made public.

So don’t worry about your form just the training of your arts boxing theory and methods .
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby origami_itto on Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:55 am

chinwoo1956 wrote:Does it really matter whether its postures are high or low? or the movements are in the correct order or even how they look in a book ?.

High or Low - yes it matters
Correct order - kinda, depends how fine you want to slice things and which specific section you're talking about. Some things must follow other things to make sense.
How they look in a book - not really, that's more confusing than anything most times without direct instruction
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:44 pm

chinwoo1956 wrote:Hi

Just a few comments?.

Surely the art that you practice must be trained according to the theory and methods laid down for its fighting skills.

Does it really matter whether its postures are high or low? or the movements are in the correct order or even how they look in a book ?.

The Hao family 96 form was produced for the book, its not the true form or training methods that are passed down to disciples ( in door students ).

There are many different training skills that you would not know, because they have not been made public.

So don’t worry about your form just the training of your arts boxing theory and nomethods .

I completely agree with the above comments. It is common knowledge that each of the major Taijiquan styles have edited and modified their original form sets and that specialized, proprietary training methods have generally been taught only to formally initiated indoor disciples who have demonstrated their long-term commitment to practicing and promoting their respective styles. These latter methods have been closely guarded traditionally, and remain mostly unknown by outsiders even today.

It is also a known fact that each style has produced similarly skilled high level masters through training based upon adherence to common core concepts and foundation principles, not through training the same form sets, or any one form set, and not by practicing with the same stylistic form expression or signature interpretation of postures. Thus, the form sets in any version are clearly not as important as the principles upon which they are based in every style.
Last edited by Doc Stier on Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:24 am

Any film of that form
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby Appledog on Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:36 pm

origami_itto wrote:Alex Dong posted this link today
Stories of Dong Ying Jie's Hao Style Master Li Baoyu
http://wulinmingshi.com/2021/09/11/stor ... -li-baoyu/
Hao Taiji, also known as Kaihe in my hometown, is the first Taiji style we practiced. Today, we practice the Hao strong for internal strength development along with our Qigong exercises, the Yang Taiji for softness and fluidity, and we have fast and Fajin forms to go with a variety of weapons. While keeping the traditions of this ancient art and the martial aspects, we also are built on friendship, compassion and fun. To be able to protect ourselves from attacks of the mind, spirit and energy are much more likely than any physical attacks.


Is it me or is Sun style so similar? I feel that Sun style took me to a new level of internal strength development too. Can't say why... maybe the fresh approach, maybe the newness of it?
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby origami_itto on Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:52 am

Appledog wrote:
origami_itto wrote:Alex Dong posted this link today
Stories of Dong Ying Jie's Hao Style Master Li Baoyu
http://wulinmingshi.com/2021/09/11/stor ... -li-baoyu/
Hao Taiji, also known as Kaihe in my hometown, is the first Taiji style we practiced. Today, we practice the Hao strong for internal strength development along with our Qigong exercises, the Yang Taiji for softness and fluidity, and we have fast and Fajin forms to go with a variety of weapons. While keeping the traditions of this ancient art and the martial aspects, we also are built on friendship, compassion and fun. To be able to protect ourselves from attacks of the mind, spirit and energy are much more likely than any physical attacks.


Is it me or is Sun style so similar? I feel that Sun style took me to a new level of internal strength development too. Can't say why... maybe the fresh approach, maybe the newness of it?


The taijiquan component of Sun style was based on Wu(hao) to the best of my knowledge.
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:01 am

origami_itto wrote:
Appledog wrote:Is it me or is Sun style so similar? I feel that Sun style took me to a new level of internal strength development too. Can't say why... maybe the fresh approach, maybe the newness of it?


The taijiquan component of Sun style was based on Wu(hao) to the best of my knowledge.


Sun style is just a variation of Hao. SLT even called it the same as the Hao form: "Kaihe Huobu Taijiquan" - "opening and closing, lively step Tajiquan". It's exactly the same form, all of the movements and the sequence are almost identical to the modern standard Hao with only small differences. Even the footwork and the vast majority of movements that looks like bagua or xingyi are als present there in Hao. I have said all of this before, and also that I don't agree with that Sun Lutang's Tai Chi is a mix between TJQ BGZ and XY. He added som minor ingredients, and the mechanics are a little bit different than Hao, but Sun TJQ is just as much tjq as any other tj "style".
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Re: Wu (Hao) style Taijiquan

Postby origami_itto on Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:29 am

Yeah I know next to nothing about Sun style.
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