wayne hansen wrote:Sun was part of the Hao lineage
A lineage that didn’t seem to keep the same form from one generation to the next
More interested in principles than form
origami_itto wrote:Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.
HotSoup wrote: Always wondered why the Dongs xxx never tried to synthesize them into a single form that can be practiced in four different ways, instead.
I’d imagine it may have to do with a different pedagogy—process several variations to get the principle, instead of a more western approach of trying to understand the principle first to apply it then to a multitude of variations, but it also could be just “we never thought of it” kind of thing
chinwoo1956 wrote:Hi
Just a few comments?.
Surely the art that you practice must be trained according to the theory and methods laid down for its fighting skills.
Does it really matter whether its postures are high or low? or the movements are in the correct order or even how they look in a book ?.
The Hao family 96 form was produced for the book, its not the true form or training methods that are passed down to disciples ( in door students ).
There are many different training skills that you would not know, because they have not been made public.
So don’t worry about your form just the training of your arts boxing theory and methods .
origami_itto wrote:Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.
windwalker wrote:origami_itto wrote:Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.
agree
Although one would have to be at a certain level of practice to appreciate it..
having worked with people from some of the major family styles, asking for help in their practices..
Have found in most cases it's not really possible as long as they try to keep what they feel they know...
Just too, different...at their level....
something I also found,,,in my own path...
HotSoup wrote:origami_itto wrote:Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.
Always wondered why the Dongs (and all other folks keeping several versions of the same forms learnt from different teachers) never tried to synthesize them into a single form that can be practiced in four different ways, instead. This could save a lot of time by not learning the excessive choreo variations (and then having to switch context all the time).
I’d imagine it may have to do with a different pedagogy—process several variations to get the principle, instead of a more western approach of trying to understand the principle first to apply it then to a multitude of variations, but it also could be just “we never thought of it” kind of thing
Appledog wrote:HotSoup wrote:origami_itto wrote:Alex always talks about it in terms of energy, he says the energy of each of the four main forms is different and is for a different purpose.
Always wondered why the Dongs (and all other folks keeping several versions of the same forms learnt from different teachers) never tried to synthesize them into a single form that can be practiced in four different ways, instead. This could save a lot of time by not learning the excessive choreo variations (and then having to switch context all the time).
I’d imagine it may have to do with a different pedagogy—process several variations to get the principle, instead of a more western approach of trying to understand the principle first to apply it then to a multitude of variations, but it also could be just “we never thought of it” kind of thing
This is a very interesting and important question and I would love to answer it but there is not enough space in the margins here to write it down.
If I tried it would go something like, as it turns out, all of these forms represent people's perspectives on how to teach and learn tai chi.
In other words they are 'grand experiments'.
In some respects the transition to yi lu and er lu succeeded, in other respects it failed. Now we have more than five styles of tai chi to choose from. If you compare chen to yang, then you can ask why did they need to make a hao and sun style. Dong's rationale for keeping the kaihe set is one 'observation' over the 'perspectives' and both the successes and failures of various 'perspectives'. The edit here is, none of these perspectives really failed, they all kind of improved upon each other in various ways, but sometimes when you fix one thing you break something else, and it can be helpful to just take a step back and try to drink in the whole grand perspective of the thing instead of focusing solely on one detail here or there.
In my family style we also do Sun style for the same reasons. So I found what Dong said to be quite funny. I think I like the guy. If I ever meet him I'll buy him a beer.
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