Mobilize Qi, Pull Silk — Adam Mizner

[windwalker]

Adam’s demo itself quite interesting.

Not too hard to do provided one
is working on the same skill sets .

[wayne hansen]

Lests see them make her jump
https://www.facebook.com/reel/176153805 ... e&s=TIeQ9V

[Bao]

Lests see them make her jump
https://www.facebook.com/reel/176153805 ... e&s=TIeQ9V

One of my favorite clips for the moment. Mr Huang should definitely keep demonstrating on his students only. In this regard, Mizner is far smarter.

There’s nothing internal in what he does here, he merely instructs her to be stiff and tries shoveling her with external force. In the internal arts, you adapt to the opponent, you don’t try to manipulate or force your opponent to adapt to you.

https://youtu.be/MDOnRgSPVaw

[windwalker]

must be the "Mizner" effect

The teacher's IMO mistake

https://www.facebook.com/808398111/vide ... 805171706/

was to keep trying to do something that obviously for what ever reason wasn't working as intended...
still insisting on a result.... looked like his timing was off among other things...

Happens,,,


The mizner demo quite skillful, a common theme that many teachers use
to demo in making a point or illustrating a principle....

Explained in many different ways...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOnRgSPVaw

The fourth method of the five methods of loosening the body is the application of bending the waist and loosening the tendons. Many people have filmed the video of the loose body and five movements in our sect. Except for the master Huang Xingxian, no one seems to have filmed the video used.
Originally, I only opened it to my disciples and students for internal teaching, so as to promote it publicly Huang-style Tai Chi,
if you are interested in learning, please sign up for the Huang-style Tai Chi, an online beginner class that starts at the end of the month. https://lin.ee/4HgOBua

What is shown pretty standard as far as demos of teachers that teach this kind of skill set....
wouldn't one expect his students that go on to be teachers to do the same type of demos ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU&t=40s

[cloudz]

must be the "Mizner" effect

The teacher's IMO mistake

https://www.facebook.com/808398111/vide ... 805171706/

was to keep trying to do something that obviously for what ever reason wasn't working as intended...
still insisting on a result.... looked like his timing was off among other things...

Happens,,,


The mizner demo quite skillful, a common theme that many teachers use
to demo in making a point or illustrating a principle....

Explained in many different ways...

the clip clearly illustrates how simple and basic these demonstrations really are - in the way they work - and in turn how simply they breakdown.
people approaching tcc these days have to think quite clearly and carefully what skills they truly want to gain.

side show bob or martial arts..
the dilemma is real.

[Doc Stier]

I offer no comment on the content of these various videos. The reason is simple. I like any video which demonstrates effective, realistic fighting skills applied on non-compliant partners, but it's usually virtually impossible to determine whether or not what is shown in these videos actually represents such skill, because that's not what is demonstrated.

As a martial arts practitioner, I am personally not interested in training any method in order to simply bounce an opponent out unharmed. I am instead primarily interested in the ability to neutralize serious attacks and render the attacker physically incapable of continuing to be a threat. Would love to see more videos which demonstrate exactly that.

[origami_itto]

must be the "Mizner" effect

The teacher's IMO mistake

https://www.facebook.com/808398111/vide ... 805171706/

was to keep trying to do something that obviously for what ever reason wasn't working as intended...
still insisting on a result.... looked like his timing was off among other things...

Happens,,,


The mizner demo quite skillful, a common theme that many teachers use
to demo in making a point or illustrating a principle....

Explained in many different ways...

the clip clearly illustrates how simple and basic these demonstrations really are - in the way they work - and in turn how simply they breakdown.
people approaching tcc these days have to think quite clearly and carefully what skills they truly want to gain.

side show bob or martial arts..
the dilemma is real.

At BEST you've got content without context. What this shows me is the guy learned a cheap trick that works on a compliant stiff frame and thinks it's taijiquan. If he had the goods he would be more song than her.

[windwalker]

a cheap trick that works on a compliant stiff frame and thinks it's taijiquan. If he had the goods he would be more song than her.

A cheap trick....so that's what it is...

"Weilun Wen
She is one of policewoman in my country".

the woman used in the demo according to one of the comments.

If one looks at her body, seems like she was flexing not being very neutral, possibly unintentional...never know
The teacher looked a little flustered,,,trying to demo something he knows he can do as a "demo" highlighting skill sets
working with someone presenting some difficulty in doing so....

Happens in all demos with unknowns,,,
He should have just changed the demo and had her push or attack him depending on what he was trying to show..
As it was he pursued, expecting a familiar outcome

It's not fighting,,,

like watching brick braking demos, when "what ever" doesn't break...those doing the demo continuing to try
knowing it's something they've done in the past and it should break....


This teacher as many do exaggerated his presentation relying on underling actual skill...
Kind of a detractor to the skill...

Used to judge MA tournaments a long while back....form competitions....
many of the competitors often exaggerated the intention of their movements
often detracting from basic skill sets the exhibited.

It's called presentation...

As to the "trick" a common skill set in taiji used by those in some lines of practice
presentation by the practitioners very,,,according to their nature...

[wayne hansen]

I think the woman is trying to do exactly what is asked
Her natural reaction takes over
If the teacher???? Had any real skill like listening and folding he should get an even better result with her
This is what happens when you train tricks rather than skill
You become good at those tricks but only under the right conditions with the right conditioned assistant

[origami_itto]

a cheap trick that works on a compliant stiff frame and thinks it's taijiquan. If he had the goods he would be more song than her.

A cheap trick....so that's what it is...

"Weilun Wen
She is one of policewoman in my country".

the woman used in the demo according to one of the comments.

If one looks at her body, seems like she was flexing not being very neutral, possibly unintentional...never know
The teacher looked a little flustered,,,trying to demo something he knows he can do as a "demo" highlighting skill sets
working with someone presenting some difficulty in doing so....

Happens in all demos with unknowns,,,
He should have just changed the demo and had her push or attack him depending on what he was trying to show..
As it was he pursued, expecting a familiar outcome

It's not fighting,,,

like watching brick braking demos, when "what ever" doesn't break...those doing the demo continuing to try
knowing it's something they've done in the past and it should break....


This teacher as many do exaggerated his presentation relying on underling actual skill...
Kind of a detractor to the skill...

Used to judge MA tournaments a long while back....form competitions....
many of the competitors often exaggerated the intention of their movements
often detracting from basic skill sets the exhibited.

It's called presentation...

As to the "trick" a common skill set in taiji used by those in some lines of practice
presentation by the practitioners very,,,according to their nature...

Yes. A very cheap trick. Tai chi teaching is filled with dishonesty.
I wish you would just speak directly. You're not a fortune cookie, talk like a human.

I had one workshop where he wanted us to work on some skill and asked for my arm. I did literally nothing but stand there as he tried to do whatever and he said "hey man it's not a competition here".

I didn't really get it but just went along with the demo making a conscious effort to help his technique work. It's all instructive. The goal of the exercise turned out to be cultivating the quality he asked me to abandon to make it work.

I'm working hard to avoid those situations entirely. If you're demonstrating something that needs a feeder frame make sure you've got a student for it. He's trying to look better than he is and failing because she is more sung.

With that particular push through the hands I've seen much more success with a sort of double pump. A short quick fake to provoke stiffness and then the real push.

Fighting or not, what's being demonstrated? Do we really need taijiquan to push a stiff person with stiff arms through their arms? No. We don't. Then what is this ? Exaggeration or no, he looks like a goofball.

"You didn't respond correctly for my technique to work" means the technique doesn't work in that context, full stop. It's like blaming the audience for not laughing at your jokes.

Use your trained stooges or avoid it is my advice.

[everything]

I offer no comment on the content of these various videos. The reason is simple. I like any video which demonstrates effective, realistic fighting skills applied on non-compliant partners, but it's usually virtually impossible to determine whether or not what is shown in these videos actually represents such skill, because that's not what is demonstrated.

As a martial arts practitioner, I am personally not interested in training any method in order to simply bounce an opponent out unharmed. I am instead primarily interested in the ability to neutralize serious attacks and render the attacker physically incapable of continuing to be a threat. Would love to see more videos which demonstrate exactly that.

I guess that's the central dilemma of "internal". If nobody is satisified until someone can defeat Jon Jones, we will be waiting quite a long time (I guess OTOH time can obviously defeat Jones). But then, logically, we could say, "I study X so can I defeat Jones with X?" then when I obviously cannot (and nobody else has been able to either, regardless of the "X"), I conclude "X must suck" but that's obviously not necessarily true. So then you have to figure out if "X" is still worth it to you. Presumably, everyone here thinks so, otherwise why post and read all about "X" (with the obvious exception of one person who obviously has some strange agenda against tai chi, lol; everyone else here seems genuinely interested).

[Doc Stier]

I offer no comment on the content of these various videos. The reason is simple. I like any video which demonstrates effective, realistic fighting skills applied on non-compliant partners, but it's usually virtually impossible to determine whether or not what is shown in these videos actually represents such skill, because that's not what is demonstrated.

As a martial arts practitioner, I am personally not interested in training any method in order to simply bounce an opponent out unharmed. I am instead primarily interested in the ability to neutralize serious attacks and render the attacker physically incapable of continuing to be a threat. Would love to see more videos which demonstrate exactly that.

I guess that's the central dilemma of "internal". If nobody is satisified until someone can defeat Jon Jones, we will be waiting quite a long time (I guess OTOH time can obviously defeat Jones). But then, logically, we could say, "I study X so can I defeat Jones with X?" then when I obviously cannot (and nobody else has been able to either, regardless of the "X"), I conclude "X must suck" but that's obviously not necessarily true. So then you have to figure out if "X" is still worth it to you. Presumably, everyone here thinks so, otherwise why post and read all about "X" (with the obvious exception of one person who obviously has some strange agenda against tai chi, lol; everyone else here seems genuinely interested).

Good grief! I wasn't suggesting that IMA practitioners should post videos of themselves defeating Jon Jones, or any other professional fighter, in a full-contact competition venue.

I was simply saying that it would be nice to see videos of IMA applications performed with realistic speed and power on partners who attack with same, rather than no-touch demos or stationary fajin demos repelling cooperative students.

[everything]

Wow WTF right back at ya, lol . In no way am I saying I thought "docstier" thinks someone should defeat Jones. What I'm saying is that seems to be the (misguided if so) logic people here express. Until another YLC comes around that can defeat a Jones, they think "X" is not worth anything. But obviously, that cannot be true (especially coming from people who all say they pursue "X"). But then they are shown some bit of "X" that is far short of someone defeating Jones and are upset or condescending (notice: not "docstier" or any specific names).

[Bao]

I think the woman is trying to do exactly what is asked
Her natural reaction takes over
If the teacher???? Had any real skill like listening and folding he should get an even better result with her
This is what happens when you train tricks rather than skill
You become good at those tricks but only under the right conditions with the right conditioned assistant

Exactly. 100%

If you watch the other, the "classroom" clip, the teacher (Huang) doesn't adjust his angles according to his students body. When he pushes down, whatever he does and however, his student still goes down. So I guess he just tried doing the same thing against the woman that works against his own students. If he has skill, he doesn't show it here.

But I won't say that he has no skill, just that I don't see it in these videos. I saw a couple of clips of Huang from Martial Man's website where he spoke about a couple of principles in Tai Chi and for free push hands, showing that he has some good knowledge. He also seemed generous and humble in those videos.

[origami_itto]

If you watch the other, the "classroom" clip, the teacher (Huang) doesn't adjust his angles according to his students body. When he pushes down, whatever he does and however, his student still goes down. So I guess he just tried doing the same thing against the woman that works against his own students. If he has skill, he doesn't show it here.

But I won't say that he has no skill, just that I don't see it in these videos. I saw a couple of clips of Huang from Martial Man's website where he spoke about a couple of principles in Tai Chi and for free push hands, showing that he has some good knowledge. He also seemed generous and humble in those videos.

Maybe you just don't understand what you're seeing there?

Why would he need to change position? At the level he is operating that becomes irrelevant.

What is the purpose and end result of all this neigong?