great push hands skill

[somatai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bXaXXW ... annel_page

[mixjourneyman]

That was great!

[qiphlow]

really, really nice.

[williamwilson666]

The demonstration of his version of the Shao Hou form is also especially impressive.

[Bao]

I see it as an excellent performance. Thanks for sharing.

But if you have been told about always keeping "peng-jin", do someone see this demo as violating that principle? Do someone see his defensive maneuvers as collapsing?

In this vid, where is the fine line between using "lü jin" and "collapse".

[bailewen]

Fantastic.


I particularly liked comparing the earlier parts with about 2/3 of the way through when he starts showing more clearly all sorts of striking methods that he was holding back in the beginning parts. You can see the same moves earlier on but he lets the kid go. Later on he starts leaving his hands in the striking positions long enough for the audience to actually "get" what was going on earlier.

That particular kind of freestyle moving step is something I haven't really seen on youtube before either. It answers, for me, all the questions about why "pushing" someone is meaningful. It's not really. This clip show what push hands should be at it's best, IMO. It is simply a method for training and exploring those skills and techniques that are definitive of (Yang style in this case) taijiquan.

[Andy_S]

Yep, this was posted across the road....some of the best PH I have ever seen.

The way he completely compromises the other guys' structure shows EXACTLY how damaging he could be (esp to his opponent's spine) if he wanted to follow through.

In this sense, his PH is clearly useful preparation for combat, rather than the usual "push the guy away/pull him down" that we usually see...and one can see how very, very damaging this art can, potentially be. Yet there is no damage to the opponent, which indicates that PH, trained correctly, is an effective and intelligent training method.

Oustanding.

I'd add that the other forms clips (there are a range of other ones on .net) from this Yang Shou-hao lineage show a radically different form of Yang Taiji to the norm. This is probably the only system of Yang I have seen that indicates what the old - and, according to anecdotal evidence, deadly - Taiji used to be. I wonder what Li thinks of the rest of the Yang Taiji world? It seems to be a completely different MA.

Bao:

Why would you want to argue points of principle when it comes to something this good?

[CaliG]

Fantastic.


I particularly liked comparing the earlier parts with about 2/3 of the way through when he starts showing more clearly all sorts of striking methods that he was holding back in the beginning parts. You can see the same moves earlier on but he lets the kid go. Later on he starts leaving his hands in the striking positions long enough for the audience to actually "get" what was going on earlier.

That particular kind of freestyle moving step is something I haven't really seen on youtube before either. It answers, for me, all the questions about why "pushing" someone is meaningful. It's not really. This clip show what push hands should be at it's best, IMO. It is simply a method for training and exploring those skills and techniques that are definitive of (Yang style in this case) taijiquan.

That's a good point Omar. I completely agree, that as soon as push hands becomes about winning it's value as a training method often decreases. Of course that's not 100% true but from what I've seen on these youtube vidz it often seems that people would get more out of it if they went for quality instead of trying to show their stuff.

Then again I suppose that's true about most things, but there's a fine line between winning/learning and sometimes it's not so easy to understand that in push hands. I believe that's why working with a good teacher is so important because there's no question as to who's better so you can set that aside and just learn...usually.

[Bao]

Bao:
Why would you want to argue points of principle when it comes to something this good?

We can discuss general use of principle and support our ideas with good examples. I believe that people rely to much on "pengjin", solid structure and keeping distance. I think this vid is a very good example of my view. Then we have aa bunch of people who are allergic against "collapse" and "noodeling". This vid is a good example of a teaacher who can "collapse" in a very useful and active manner.

[somatai]

i agree Bao

[steelincotton]

I love those two clips! They are some of my favorites. I posted them a while ago, but nobody has really noticed until lately. Liu and my teacher (V. Chu) are friends, so he asked me to put them up for him. BTW, the kid in the clip is his son, who I'm sure is going to be really good someday.

[somatai]

where does Liu teach? any chance he will come through boston?

[steelincotton]

where does Liu teach? any chance he will come through boston?

Liu's in Nanning City, Guangxi Province, and he's never come West as far as I know, but if he comes our way I'll be sure to let you know. I'd love to get a "feel" for what he does as well.

[Jingang]

He definitely has great skill. But, with no disrespect, if you only pay attention to his left arm you'll notice he grabs the young guy's arm above the elbow very often and does not let go. If he only pushed or stuck to his arm I wouldn't have said a thing, but he really grabs it.
Moreover, I think they don't play by the same rules. I'm not sure I understand what were the rules but is seems that they are striving to find the opponent's center and push him out of balance. Than again, the guy on the right uses a grab to the head (right hand) on several occasions. the younger guy aslo had chances to do so but didn't even bother to. I don't think attacks (as punches) where part of the practice therefore I don't understand the reason only one of them used that head pull.

I think the young guy has nice skill too

Nice combination of push hands and grab arms

[Ba-men]

Great push hands skill... But that's my contention... That's all it is and should never be construed as having real prowess!

IMO..... Here is a perfect example of taking something too far. How much of what is demonstrated in this video is practical?

Some.... but how much?

A lot of what was shown goes by the way side when the dynamics of a fight show up. (i.e. Shoving, multiple punching, kicking, clinching, throwing etc... is employed.)

How much of his attaching, adhering, connecting and following he demonstrates will get used when he encounters someone who will throw feints, uses off timing and attempt to manipulate the tempo?

Some, but how much?

At best.....Great Tui shou skill equates to "some" prowess.

IMHO.... With the eye to the big picture of gaining the prowess to fight....Its best to learn Tui shou and then practice it in relation to how it applies to San shou.