Resistance

[Doc Stier]

Many people nowadays enthusiastically criticize anything and everything posted by someone else, oftentimes with incredible arrogance and disrespect, from the relative safety of their electronic devices. As such, it has been my observation that anyone can present themselves as an expert online, but live and in person, not so much.

[marvin8]

No. I mean my gif from both 4:53 – 4:55 and 5:29 – 5:35. Starting at 5:29, you do not "pause and talk to the camera." Anyways,"pausing and talking to the camera" is irrelevant. It's what you and the attacker do before that.

4.53 I'm talking to the cameras as I do the movement, I even step towards the camera
5.29 I'm talking to the camera as I do the movement

Before looking at the camera you make 2 moves: 1. bend over 2. step to the right side with your right foot.

The difference between 1:30 and 4:53 movements is distance/space and reaction time. When an attacker does a two hand grab, they are closer, can feel any changes and respond (e.g, headbutt, choke, etc.) much faster to their opponent. Fast reaction times will only do so much. To have good timing, you need to predict (or prevent) your attacker’s position and movement in advance.

In both cases I'm working slow, for the reasons described before - the universal method of showing something for the first time to explain it.

Again, it doesn't matter "whether [it's] in real time or not." Both Systema demos were slow to explain it.

The difference is you did "Nothing" to prevent the attacker (Jay) from responding to your movements, while the other Systema instructor prevented the attacker from responding by "pinning/trapping and taking the opponent's balance in one movement—simultaneous defense and offense."

What prevents the "resistant" attacker from "responding" by moving/turning while you level change? It seems to disregard the principle for every action there is a reaction.

Nothing when I'm demonstrating and talking about what I'm doing. But when applied in real time, speed, timing, hitting him as I move, etc. At speed, what time doe he have to respond, if he doesn't know what I am going to do? And if he does, I respond with him.

Could Jay do any or some of the things on your list? Probably. At this stage, though, why would he?

Jay would respond to your movements to demo what your explaining in the video.

I don't really like the word resistance in training I prefer to think of things as being active. So I'm working against an active partner or person… but as you go up that cooperation can decrease it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is just offering resistance because that implies to me like just tension a sort of static tension but if the person is responding to what I'm doing then that's a much better way to test something but not a technique…

Whether the problem is a nail or not we have a range of options and of course a lot of those options are built around our ability to move. In order to cultivate that ability to move, we have to understand tension in ourselves. Then to work against an alive person or an active person, we have to understand tension in the other person because resistance most often comes through tension. So let's take a look at a couple of ideas of how we can work around resistance.

Had some interesting PM's on this, thanks chaps.

Feel free to add any new arguments on the topic, other than informal fallacies.

xie xie

[RobP3]

Before looking at the camera you make 2 moves: 1. bend over 2. step to the right side with your right foot.
The difference between 1:30 and 4:53 movements is distance/space and reaction time. When an attacker does a two hand grab, they are closer, can feel any changes and respond (e.g, headbutt, choke, etc.) much faster to their opponent. Fast reaction times will only do so much. To have good timing, you need to predict (or prevent) your attacker’s position and movement in advance.

So now we are into forensic analysis of a technique that I'm not even doing. I don't how else to explain it. What I'm doing there is simply illustrating a basic principle of not working directly against resistance, using movement. In that case, anything else is irrelevant. I cover, to some extent, some other aspects of that situation a little later on, though "escape vs grab" is not the primary purpose of the clip. Jay is not responding at that stage because he understood what was going on, which you don't seem to be able to.

Until you can accept that fact, which seems to many to be made perfectly clear in the clip and in subsequent posts, we might as well be arguing about "what if he has a knife in push hands" or something

[RobP3]

@RobP3
I'm no expert, but I think you should have worn cammo pants and done a somersault, so the internet would know you were doing Systema.

Other than that, I liked the "sparring" video. I think of that kind of asymmetrical situational work as scenario training, and sparring as symetrical/technical work, but it's good stuff, regardless of what you call it. Along with intelligent use of drills, I think that's one of the best parts of Systema. And also cammo pants.

[marvin8]

Before looking at the camera you make 2 moves: 1. bend over 2. step to the right side with your right foot.

The difference between 1:30 and 4:53 movements is distance/space and reaction time. When an attacker does a two hand grab, they are closer, can feel any changes and respond (e.g, headbutt, choke, etc.) much faster to their opponent. Fast reaction times will only do so much. To have good timing, you need to predict (or prevent) your attacker’s position and movement in advance.

So now we are into forensic analysis of a technique that I'm not even doing. I don't how else to explain it. What I'm doing there is simply illustrating a basic principle of not working directly against resistance, using movement.

No. I am stating what you did in your demo video.

Jay is not responding at that stage because he understood what was going on, which you don't seem to be able to.

Jay is not responding, which is not what your explaining "working against an active, alive partner or person."

@RobP3
I'm no expert, but I think you should have worn cammo pants and done a somersault, so the internet would know you were doing Systema.

Other than that, I liked the "sparring" video. I think of that kind of asymmetrical situational work as scenario training, and sparring as symetrical/technical work, but it's good stuff, regardless of what you call it. Along with intelligent use of drills, I think that's one of the best parts of Systema. And also cammo pants.

I agree with Bhassler that sparring is good. However, that is an informal fallacy—not what liokault and I commented on.

xie xie

[RobP3]

But you are mischaracterising what you are commenting on

[marvin8]

But you are mischaracterising what you are commenting on

I don't believe so. But, in what way?

[Doc Stier]

Good grief, Marvin! Give it a rest, man. You are practically the Poster Child for my previous comment.

I am not, nor have I ever been a Systema practitioner, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think I clearly understood your criticisms of Rob's video during the first dozen times you posted them, and I find it very curious that you won't accept his explanation of what he intended to demonstrate in his video.

Perhaps you could better illustrate your ongoing critique by producing your own video, not clips of boxers or MMA fighters, in which YOU show how the subject matter is better demonstrated.

[marvin8]

Perhaps you could better illustrate your ongoing critique by producing your own video, not clips of boxers or MMA fighters, in which YOU show how the subject matter is better demonstrated.

I've already presented another Systema Instructor's video, which anyone can compare with the "principles."

[Doc Stier]

Perhaps you could better illustrate your ongoing critique by producing your own video, not clips of boxers or MMA fighters, in which YOU show how the subject matter is better demonstrated.

I've already presented another Systema Instructor's video, which anyone can compare with the "principles."

With all due respect for your comments, I'm beginning to think you're totally tone deaf. I asked for a video of YOU personally demonstrating what you believe to be a better illustration of the subject matter, not a clip of someone else's performance.

[marvin8]

Perhaps you could better illustrate your ongoing critique by producing your own video, not clips of boxers or MMA fighters, in which YOU show how the subject matter is better demonstrated.

I've already presented another Systema Instructor's video, which anyone can compare with the "principles."

With all due respect for your comments, I'm beginning to think you're totally tone deaf. I asked for a video of YOU personally demonstrating what you believe to be a better illustration of the subject matter, not a clip of someone else's performance.

Respectfully no, I heard you. I believe the Systema instructor's video addressed the topic, the principles of a two hand grab. It's not about informal fallacies.

[RobP3]

But you are mischaracterising what you are commenting on

I don't believe so. But, in what way?

In the way I've been explaining for the last page or so
If the clip was entitled "How to escape a grab" and stopped after five minutes or so, you might have a point. It doesn't and you don't.

[Quigga]

Not pointing at anyone in particular, but:

Good grief, what a hoot

[marvin8]

But you are mischaracterising what you are commenting on

I don't believe so. But, in what way?

In the way I've been explaining for the last page or so
If the clip was entitled "How to escape a grab" and stopped after five minutes or so, you might have a point. It doesn't and you don't.

I still don't understand how it's mischaracterizing. Liokault and I only commented on 4:53 - 5:35 of your video. I agreed that 1:30 and sparring is good. Your video was titled, "Resistance." Your demonstration from 4:53 - 5:35 showed you responding to a two handed grab by "before looking at the camera you make 2 moves: 1. bend over 2. step to the right side with your right foot..."

Another Systema instructor gave a demo on Systema principles (cross, lever, etc.), while using movement against a two handed grab...

[RobP3]

Then read what I posted above and tell me which bit you are having trouble understanding