Prince Su's Mansion

[wushutiger]

The Prince & the Kungfu Master - The Legacy of Bagua Zhang - Part 3

[jimmy]

[Bob]

Thoroughly enjoyed this segment - I'm glad you stated that the castration/ennuch status of Dong Haichuan was legend because it doesn't sound feasible - However, his motivation for entering the Prince Su Mansion is quite a mystery.

First, he was already older and had already established a martial arts following - entering for job/monetary security doesn't sound likely as his students would likely take care of him in old age.
Castration has physiological consequences and would probably severely diminish his martial arts prowess. I recall from the old bagua journal that Yin Fu and he worked as tax collectors in the Mongolian region so again it doesn't sound as though it was a monetary motivation. Furthermore his stay at the Prince Su Mansion, as mentioned in the video, was short and a willingness to subject himself to castration for so short of a time period doesn't sound reasonable.

The "best" story I heard over the years was that he had the ability to retract his testicles i.e. "suck in his balls" to disguise himself as a ennuch is a martial arts skill that frankly I am quite skeptical about. Saw it on Youtube but who knows.

Nonetheless thank you for your efforts and they are well appreciated.

[nicklinjm]

Great vid Byron, had no idea the current Su's mansion is not the mansion Dong actually worked at, must have taken a lot of hard research and sifting through old records to pinpoint the old location!

[Quigga]

Bob - when I was doing intense pelvic floor training, I could have 8 dry orgsams in a row, in a hour.

I'd say there's a Yin approach to love making where you relax the PF as much as possible. Climax occurs when you tense up above a threshold and haven't circulated the energy during the act properly. Not that there's anything wrong with ejaculating. It's very right and very necessary. With the Yin method, you don't ever really have a complete orgasm except when you want to, but you can ride the pleasure wave for a long time.

The Yang approach is to heavily contract the PF a few moments before you're coming. This can be very detrimental to sexual health over the long run, if done to excess. Chronic pelvic floor dysfunction by excess tension is the exact opposite of what balanced training wants to achieve.

That being said, it's definitely possible to contract the PF so much that the testicles travel into the pelvis. It freaked me out the first couple times, and I had to use my hands from the outside to move them down again. It can also be that only one travels upward and the other stays in the sack. But that would be incomplete disguise, lol.

I can't do it anymore. And again, without a balanced training regime and knowing what you're doing, you can royally fuck yourself up. Mentally as well as physically.

[stma]

Chinese castration for eunuchs included removal of the penis and testicles. There is no disguising that.

[Bob]

Well check that one off the list LOL

[wushutiger]

Thoroughly enjoyed this segment - I'm glad you stated that the castration/ennuch status of Dong Haichuan was legend because it doesn't sound feasible - However, his motivation for entering the Prince Su Mansion is quite a mystery.

First, he was already older and had already established a martial arts following - entering for job/monetary security doesn't sound likely as his students would likely take care of him in old age.
Castration has physiological consequences and would probably severely diminish his martial arts prowess. I recall from the old bagua journal that Yin Fu and he worked as tax collectors in the Mongolian region so again it doesn't sound as though it was a monetary motivation. Furthermore his stay at the Prince Su Mansion, as mentioned in the video, was short and a willingness to subject himself to castration for so short of a time period doesn't sound reasonable.

The "best" story I heard over the years was that he had the ability to retract his testicles i.e. "suck in his balls" to disguise himself as a ennuch is a martial arts skill that frankly I am quite skeptical about. Saw it on Youtube but who knows.

Nonetheless thank you for your efforts and they are well appreciated.

Thanks. I am glad you liked it. The issue with Dong becoming a eunuch is a difficult topic. Firstly, there is a lot of resistance against the idea simply from a stigma against the Manchu/Qing. The ultimate sign of loyalty in this sense for a man would be to remove his genitalia in service of what became so heavily hated, the Qing and the Manchus. So there is already a heavy stigma and resistance to the idea that Dong would have been a eunuch. However, we have seen that Dong and even his students in some cases were ardent supporters of the Qing, including of Dowager Ci Xi herself. He even became a tax collector, another hated position by the common people. I would suggest people read into the reality of breaking such an important rule such as a fully in tact male being allowed to serve within a Prince's mansion. This would have meant execution for Dong and anyone who had assisted him in attaining this position without being castrated. It is no small matter and I cant see how anyone would attempt to assist him with this taking into consideration the consequences for being found out. As an example of the severity for violating Qing law, there was a law against the teaching of Chinese to foreigners and should one do so, they would be executed. There are accounts of this in many books, for example "God's Chinese Son" about the Taiping rebellion, also online sources as well:

"…James Flint, a former employee and the only one fluent in Chinese in the Canton Factory* of the East India Company, who ventured northward by sea to send a petition against Chinese custom officials in Canton to the Qian Long Emperor in Beijing, ignoring the regulation of communications through Chinese Hong** merchants. The Qing court punished the corrupted Chinese officials as well as James Flint who violated the regulation. However, they put the blame on Flint’s Chinese teacher Liu Yabian 刘亚扁 for triggering the tension by teaching Flint, ‘a foreign barbarian’, Chinese to make money, and further, for helping Flint to pen his petition in Chinese. Liu Yabian was then executed in public to warn others"

So again, I am highly doubtful that both Dong and any accomplices would have taken such a huge risk as having him not undergo castration and work within the Prince's mansion. The consequence was simply too severe. Regarding Dong's castration and his prowess. It could be simply as the tale goes that he was onlky castrated late in life, meaning he had already physically matured and developed his physical attributes prior to being castrated thereby lessening its effects on him in general. Additionally, we know Dong never had any children and only had an adopted god daughter, yet another allusion to not being able to have children.

Its all speculation at this point. However, in my mind, I find it more probable that he was indeed castrated, but later in life.

[Bob]

Well Byron that helps clear up some of the mystery of the castration - thanks for taking the time to provide such an in-depth explanation - keep rolling out your work - it's a breath of fresh air! Your material is taking on an historical/documentary flavor which is much needed in the art.

[D_Glenn]

Here's a rare picture taken of the inside of Prince Su's Mansion/ area. It was completely destroyed during the Boxer Rebellion, and I believe it was where the British soldiers were trapped.



.

[D_Glenn]

DHC was born in 1804 and Yin Fu was would have met DHC around 1861. So DHC would have been at least 45 -55 years old as his place in the palace was already established. I believe he was castrated because he looked like a Eunuch (they get fat and due to hormone shifts start producing more T4 and fat is distributed below the waist.) And it was said that he had that peculiar odor that eunuchs have.

I think the money was largest motivator and there is a possibility that he was working as a spy but that doesn't really prove out considering the relationship he grew to have with the Prince.

The Princess CiXi actually had a false eunuch as her key advisor and secret lover. So there was at least one, but I don't think it was really that secret or unknown since he didn't look the part.

[GrahamB]

I think Bagua practitioners just have to accept that Dong had no Dong.

[Bob]

The contrast - not in my book LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehaoH3-PryI

[Doc Stier]

The contrast - not in my book LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehaoH3-PryI

Ai-aah! Yao mo gau cho aah!

Balls of steel. The Dong Hung-Lo Method.

[Shinobi]

Is the palace of Prince Duan - where Yang Luchan taught and Ma Gui apparently killed soldiers during the Boxer Rebellion - still there?