Recent Push Hands

[everything]

looking good and fun.

just curious / making conversation: is an error (didn't see any) "getting stuck" / being double weighted? and if so, what is your process/thinking /solution for the error? or is there another kind of error and solution?

[origami_itto]

looking good and fun.

just curious / making conversation: is an error (didn't see any) "getting stuck" / being double weighted? and if so, what is your process/thinking /solution for the error? or is there another kind of error and solution?

Thank you.

In my opinion, avoiding being double weighted is the heart and soul of Taijiquan. The solution for it is to find the room to move.
This is something I was working on all week in Austin with Tal, you can see the progress in the other video, but here's the clip of it working, albeit kind of ugly. It's the beginning of getting it. Previously when he gets into me like that and gets me on my back leg I'm stuck, but I've been working on finding that room to move into to get my freedom back.

https://youtu.be/HZUi97HEtwo?si=dpEahppNi2Op5eHw&t=130

Here's another example around the 2:55 mark
https://youtu.be/ce0Ylsh0IHY?si=2i44VJzPGZuYZNxZ

That is something I've been working on avoiding and escaping for years.

[origami_itto]

is an error (didn't see any) "getting stuck" / being double weighted? and if so, what is your process/thinking /solution for the error? or is there another kind of error and solution?

Note: Randy is a good player and I'm not trying to make myself look like a badass by pulling clips, he tosses me too, a lot. When we amp up the energy we about trade even, IMHO. These are just good examples of the principles at work.

So here is some double weighting.

I test him with a little push and then give him a real one that he neutralizes, but I'm able to get under his elbow and seize him up with pressure there and on his chest.
That frees my left hand to do something, but what?

A basic rule is look for a bow/bend. If the stomach is sticking forward or bending backward then they are already reaching the limit of their free space and you can push the center of that arc to push them out, like I did.

In terms of double weighting, I AM (or rather WE ARE) double weighted when I have him seized but I'm ahead here and in control of the lockup. He's more double weighted than me, basically, because of position. If this were moving step and he could retreat I might be in trouble because it looks like I'm leaning on him to apply the pressure

Double weighting is double yang, which creates a double yin, which is the weak spot in the opponent we attack, or the empty space in ourselves we retreat into. Whenever I find myself stuck on the yang, I look for the yin and either attack it or move into it.



Here he is trying to bind me up by crossing my left arm over my chest, and he starts to get it.
I'm able to turn my waist to make the room I need to keep a good perimeter with peng so I can slip my right hand under, relieve the pressure he's applying to keep my arm pinned, and get the freedom of movement I need to keep that left arm active and working so I can tease him up out of his root.

[origami_itto]

So here is the playlist so far of the Tampa Bay Martial Arts Group Fall Retreat 2023, I still have a lot to add but it has myself and later it has subitai, probably today I will get to the one of him throwing me around like nothing but it is not there just yet.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... KhUrLjIonq

me(Jason)


subitai(Onassis)

[origami_itto]

Some more Tampa Bay MAG Retreat footage.

I have a problem remembering names, and sometimes even remembering to ask them. If you know them let me know.

I'm on the left working with a guy from Balitmore whose name escapes me, I think he did a lot of Karate maybe? And Onassis is on the right working with somebody else "famous" whose name I didn't catch at all.


A short clip of Onassis with a couple different folks


This is his student Matt (I think? Again, I SUCK WITH NAMES SO BAD)


And this is Subitai/Onassis and I


Side note I haven't really watched or analyzed these at all other than to find logical cut points, so I'm still really interested to see what it looked like from outside.

[origami_itto]

Some more Tampa Bay MAG Retreat footage.

I have a problem remembering names, and sometimes even remembering to ask them. If you know them let me know.

I'm on the left working with a guy from Balitmore whose name escapes me, I think he did a lot of Karate maybe? And Onassis is on the right working with somebody else "famous" whose name I didn't catch at all.


A short clip of Onassis with a couple different folks


This is his student Matt (I think? Again, I SUCK WITH NAMES SO BAD)


And this is Subitai/Onassis and I


Side note I haven't really watched or analyzed these at all other than to find logical cut points, so I'm still really interested to see what it looked like from outside.

[everything]

looks like a lot of fun. maybe a quarter of a second impression was that possibly subitai pushed your right elbow to take some freedom out of your R shoulder. not really sure and not really doing any ph, only "hugging chee" and "woo woo", so take this comment as way less than $0.02 of input/noise.

[windwalker]

kudos to you and "subitai"
posting the work..

although in general not really a fan of push hands, it does help to bring people together,
promotes a focus point for practicing the work.

In Taiwan there were/are similar groups practicing in much the same way, a little more focused on the competitive aspects.. .
Good for testing things in a relatively controlled environment. they are a little rougher there..

Good depending on what one focus on, bad for some types of skill development work ... ..

looked fun....both shared viewpoints and skill sets with others
openly...

good vibe watching the clips....

[origami_itto]

looks like a lot of fun. maybe a quarter of a second impression was that possibly subitai pushed your right elbow to take some freedom out of your R shoulder. not really sure and not really doing any ph, only "hugging chee" and "woo woo", so take this comment as way less than $0.02 of input/noise.

Thanks! You should do some though, it helps each other.

I was trying to figure it out the whole time honestly. Still haven't watched it, maybe some clarity will arise. Just felt like I didn't have the option to resist the push as far as I can remember.

kudos to you and "subitai"
posting the work..

...

looked fun....both shared viewpoints and skill sets with others
openly...

good vibe watching the clips....

Thank you. I know I stir up a lot of shit mainly because I'm bored and curious, but this is my thing and you all are my people, for better or for worse. How many people are really out there working these arts these days? Not enough.

The vibe in the video is the vibe at the event, it's just a chill time, and it's pretty similar to what I've experienced in Texas. Sometimes folks get a little more active but it's usually by prior agreement. People rarely get aggro.

But that's why I post the clips honestly, I want more people to see what the culture and vibe is like and maybe get curious about getting involved and maybe choosing Taijiquan as a vector into the practice or coming out to one of these events if they already are involved.

Whenever somebody mentions ego I'm just thinking, show me anybody else posting themselves getting thrown around as much as I do.

[wayne hansen]

Which one is subitai

[origami_itto]

White headband

[origami_itto]

New video processed: This one is just the group at large.


This is a zoom in on that scene of two guys I think are pretty good. Larry and Joe.

[Appledog]

As someone who studies with Alex Dong, have you ever asked him why people begin to jarr and ebb in push hands, versus just tracing out a circle? It seems to me that there are two kinds of push hands, in one, people go in circles. In another, people stop going around in circles. I don't understand it. Maybe you have heard something.

[origami_itto]

As someone who studies with Alex Dong, have you ever asked him why people begin to jarr and ebb in push hands, versus just tracing out a circle? It seems to me that there are two kinds of push hands, in one, people go in circles. In another, people stop going around in circles. I don't understand it. Maybe you have heard something.

I don't know why I would ask anyone why other people do things, and I'm not going to pretend to read anybody's mind inventing an answer.

What he has said explicitly is that you need to be prepared for anything, if you get pushed it's not their fault for doing it wrong.

I say they're trying to "win" and push you and will do whatever they think will achieve the goal.

My goal is to respond skillfully with legitimate Taijiquan or be pushed out.

I don't understand what you mean about two kinds of push hands though. There are circular drills, but then in free pushing you can move however you think is helpful. A circular path is usually the right answer but not always.

Internally, you're still spiraling and coiling even when you're apparently moving in a straight line.

I don't know if you've watched that latest video of Larry and Joe, but check out from 1:20 to 1:36, I really like that exchange and feel like it shows a huge amount of skill.

[origami_itto]

I'm really trying to push through the rest of these videos, no pun intended. Wanna make a fancy supercut with like the Rocky music or something.

This was after I nearly died of heat stroke, so I cut the legs off my sweat pants and changed into short sleeves.
Chris Marshall of Shoreline Tai Chi is on the left in red and I'm working with Mike on the right.


Lot of players in this one, but the main tableau is Alan with someone I don't know on the left and Chris working with a woman who's name I don't know on the right, and after a while for a couple minutes I come up in the middle with Sam Winters.