the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Bao wrote:

Largely though it isn't about "an opponent" so much as it is about working with the energy itself. The opponent is just a medium. Could also be a chair, a door, a dog, a refrigerator, a girlfriend, an auditorium.

IMHO, you are absolutely correct that it's better to get rid of the word "opponent". But personally, I am a bit allergic to the word "energy". I see it as working against/with a moving object. It has movement, a structure and balance. It is that core of balance and its center that is interesting to work with, or "adapt to". What the opponent does or try to do is unimportant. Connect to the center of that apparatus and staying connected to its center is what is important. Whatever energy is not.

That may be what you are focusing on and training and that is completely valid. It does not describe my practice

origami_itto wrote:That may be what you are focusing on and training and that is completely valid. It does not describe my practice

I understood so. You focus on maintaining your integrity/conditions and don't care about your opponent.

I don't see interacting with a moving object and maintaining my integrity/center intact as mutually exclusive.

As you spoke about "energy" I described what I do from my own POV. For my own taste, "energy" is too vague and too unpractical.

What is energy? How do you feel energy? How do you use it?

definitely super vague.
"capacity to do work"

how do you feel/use? this is exactly what "IMA" is about and the best questions, lol. "sink qi to dantian", "qi follows yi", blah blah blah.... of course, that's still too vague for most people.

There's all kinds of energy but it all functions on the same basic principles.

A human body isn't a structure, it's a machine. When you join, your opponent's center is your center. There is nothing to search for. You own it.

And that applies across every sphere of that machine's function, not just the part that keeps it upright.

One of Liang Dehua's students just moved to town and is trying to get some community going. I'm bout it bout it so I shot some video and he turned it into a commercial.

Commercial or Anti-Commercial

looks super fun, and got a nice group going

wayne hansen wrote:Commercial or Anti-Commercial

I am left scratching my head about much of the experience

origami_itto wrote:You're all still a bunch of jerks....

Heartwarming

Great that you're posting stuff, Jason. And progressing. I'll post some stuff too, when the editing/post-production work is finally finished,

I'll offer an imput, more about external body organization. This could also be called 'posture' here but I don't like that term much. Currently your upper body is significantly behind the optimum vertical line (plumb line) from the middle of the ear to the middle of the hips. In other words, you're leaning backwards all the time. And as is normal in this state, your head is pushed forwards to 'counterbalance' this basic imbalance. Removing excess tension / fang song is crucial for good tai chi chuan practice, but this should never result in a collapsed structure, which is basically what you are working with at the moment. On this basis you're actually making a good job of it, but this collapsed structure may well inhibit further progress, including better yielding. Collapsing when yielding is actually another form of 'running away' - which you mention in this thread as something you rightly wish to move beyond. Collapsing is 'running away into your own body' instead of actually retreating through space (even if this is just a few cm or mm). And since this 'running-away' response in any form causes you to end up 'in a corner', then you'll either find yourself defeated in that moment or you need to tense up again to solve the problem. Which in turn will only succeed if your partner is not sufficiently skilled to immediate utilize your tensing-up to make things even harder for you.

You can work on a more aligned body organization - one that is in line with YCF's principles - by deepening the fold of the kua, letting your tailbone hang but NOT tucking it under, and lengthening the back of your neck upwards as the chin naturally moves back a little. You'll probably feel you're suddenly leaning forwards, maybe even about to fall on your face, but this is not the case - this feeling will resolve over time as your proprioception adjusts. The good thing is, you can practice this intensively solo and then just try to retain it when you have another person in front of you. (You'll lose it again and again when faced by a partner, but then you re-establish it again and again). This adjustment will make so much of the actual important more internal work easier and more accessible. More relaxed, softer, more resilient, more permeable, more immediate, more rooted, more powerful.

Giles wrote:

origami_itto wrote:You're all still a bunch of jerks....

Heartwarming

Great that you're posting stuff, Jason. And progressing. I'll post some stuff too, when the editing/post-production work is finally finished,

I'll offer an imput, more about external body organization. This could also be called 'posture' here but I don't like that term much. Currently your upper body is significantly behind the optimum vertical line (plumb line) from the middle of the ear to the middle of the hips. In other words, you're leaning backwards all the time. And as is normal in this state, your head is pushed forwards to 'counterbalance' this basic imbalance. Removing excess tension / fang song is crucial for good tai chi chuan practice, but this should never result in a collapsed structure, which is basically what you are working with at the moment. On this basis you're actually making a good job of it, but this collapsed structure may well inhibit further progress, including better yielding. Collapsing when yielding is actually another form of 'running away' - which you mention in this thread as something you rightly wish to move beyond. Collapsing is 'running away into your own body' instead of actually retreating through space (even if this is just a few cm or mm). And since this 'running-away' response in any form causes you to end up 'in a corner', then you'll either find yourself defeated in that moment or you need to tense up again to solve the problem. Which in turn will only succeed if your partner is not sufficiently skilled to immediate utilize your tensing-up to make things even harder for you.

You can work on a more aligned body organization - one that is in line with YCF's principles - by deepening the fold of the kua, letting your tailbone hang but NOT tucking it under, and lengthening the back of your neck upwards as the chin naturally moves back a little. You'll probably feel you're suddenly leaning forwards, maybe even about to fall on your face, but this is not the case - this feeling will resolve over time as your proprioception adjusts. The good thing is, you can practice this intensively solo and then just try to retain it when you have another person in front of you. (You'll lose it again and again when faced by a partner, but then you re-establish it again and again). This adjustment will make so much of the actual important more internal work easier and more accessible. More relaxed, softer, more resilient, more permeable, more immediate, more rooted, more powerful.

I definitely appreciate the insight and input. That's why I share these, right? To help myself and others understand Push hands better. It's hard to find anything on youtube that isn't just static drills or showing off in a tournament. We need more visibility for park pushing.

These are from the day after working with Brandon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAR0rawDdkc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3fREuWBPQ


The Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... LZD0bnIG9L

This is some chill work from today, still can't get that butting head under control. It's gone in the form, just wants to come back.:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... CnVpuVN3tp

Me and Brandon:

Brandon and Randy:

Me and Randy

origami_itto wrote:... still can't get that butting head under control. It's gone in the form, just wants to come back.

Question: when you ride a bicycle through the streets, do you keep your eyes on your hands and the handlebars, to make sure the hands are where they are 'supposed to be' and they are steering you correctly? Or do you keep your eyes on the road and the landscape?

Giles wrote:

origami_itto wrote:... still can't get that butting head under control. It's gone in the form, just wants to come back.

Question: when you ride a bicycle through the streets, do you keep your eyes on your hands and the handlebars, to make sure the hands are where they are 'supposed to be' and they are steering you correctly? Or do you keep your eyes on the road and the landscape?

You know, I get it, the eyes guide the Yi and express the shen I just lack the discipline to keep them pointing where I want. I was watching the Dong Hu Ling push hands video the other day and his gaze is INTENSELY focused, so something to work on.

Here's some of last weekend. I'm in Austin for the week and catching up with the crew. (Will Update as I go)

Me and walter, this gets a little cleaner about halfway through.

Me and Tal

Tal here is probably my favorite person in the world to work with. He's been doing shaolin since I don't know when and a few years of Taijiquan now so he has a ton of power, good listening, no bs in his game, we both consider "winning" to be learning something and we give each other opportunity to work on our weaknesses. I always come away with something I didn't go in with, truly blessed to have this guy in my life.

Here we're mainly working on one of my weak spots, that particular angle always seems to catch me. He's like Ryan Gosling, that man can get it whenever he wants.
The idea is to get enough room to neutralize without giving up too much space and return what he's giving me. I only really get it cleanly in the last 10 seconds or so.

What I like about it, what I learned here, is that I have more freedom of movement.

Basically in the past they get my top up and back, and I've been trying to pull my hips back and down to get under and sink out of it, but their force there is like a stopper keeping me from being able to accomplish that particular vector.

So what I have pieced together is I start at the contact point and yield slightly and return on TOP of it to start a wave down my spine.

Anyhow this is day 4 in 100+ degrees pushing hands. I'd done about two hours of solo practice and we'd been pushing for about 45 at this point. Doneski.



Here's some of what we did beforehand.

I'm pretty happy with this workout. Randy is a great partner. He's been doing the HME material for the past few years and has been following William C. C. Chen's work for a long time. We both get pushed. I feel like there are some errors in the beginning that I get a better handle on during the session. You can see, for example, where my tailbone isn't set properly. Also going to pull a couple gifs to demonstrate the practical purpose of silk reeling energy.