Best Xing Yi I've seen

[wayne hansen]

I’m with u Bao
Independent arm action
No use of torso
I’m not sure parts of the film arnt sped up

[Appledog]

as my own XY is quite rudimentary, I am sure that I don't understand these matters enough to make a very good judgment. I would suggest listening from advanced long-time practitioners, preferably ppl who have XY as their main style or practice only XY and see what they have to say. Sadly enough, those people who would be really interesting to hear what they say are all gone from the boards, or just prefer to lurk now and then but keep quiet.

No, I think your analysis is pretty spot on. From my perspective it looks like he is telegraphing. So there is the practical reason I was referring to. Additionally at a certain point if there is too much spice added it is no longer the same kind of soup. So for whatever reason it's xingyi, but also not xingyi. I wonder if he is unconsciously adding ideas from other arts he practices?

The thing to remember is that 90% is still good enough. Even though we may say it is not 6h or not "really" 100% xingyi, I still don't want to be hit with his beng quan

[Appledog]

I’m with u Bao
Independent arm action
No use of torso
I’m not sure parts of the film arnt sped up

Hahahaha. Ok so, look at the clothing. If the clothing moves differently, it is sped up. Anyone can see for themself

In one case the rusting of the trees and someone walking in the background made it an easy tell. But for this one all you can go by is the clothing.

[HotSoup]

I agree, Zheng Minxing is one of the best examples of the CMA skill out there. Not the mechanistic, rudimentary, novice level where the student still needs to keep in mind basic body requirements while moving. No, not that, but the master’s level where the elasticity and whole-body power are extremely vivid. I can literarily feel how he’s drawing the bow string and then shooting the proverbial arrow within his body. I wish more people were hungry for this kind of body skill instead of pursuing woo-woo nonsense.

[wayne hansen]

Do you both practice Hsing I
If so what sort

[HotSoup]

Che style. You?

[Quigga]

Thank Goodness, at least one person sees what I see. Was starting to feel a bit lonely here.

[wayne hansen]

The majority of my hsing I comes through the Tang Shou Tao line
I have also learnt some 6 harmony
The reason I asked about what school you trained to see what perspective you were both coming from
Looking at your bio I can see a large range of diverse influences

[everything]

Thank Goodness, at least one person sees what I see. Was starting to feel a bit lonely here.

not quite sure what to make of the "outer" movement "look". there are those people who may look "awkward" yet are top of the world athletes. obsessing with this for something that is supposed to be about the "inside" as its uniqueness always seems a little weird. but what is there to talk about, otherwise, i suppose. curious what else you see or read into it perhaps is a better phrase.

[HotSoup]

The reason I asked about what school you trained to see what perspective you were both coming from
Looking at your bio I can see a large range of diverse influences

My perspective is very simple: The body skill that all CMA try to build is the whole-body power. When expressed as Fali, it looks extremely elastic. I constantly see it in the best of the best of Taiji, Bagua, Xin[g]yi, Baji, Tongbei, etc. It’s very apparent on the video of Zheng Minxing above. A few more vids of people you probably never heard of before, but who demonstrate this quality despite practicing unrelated styles:









If anything, this is the definitive feature of CMA, this is the gongfu everyone wants to achieve. This is what people preserve in old age, despite their muscles gradually atrophiying. Also, this is what enables throwing people like rug dolls in tuishou (though, it looks slightly different because all the energy is released into the opponent’s body instead of mainly being released within one’s own and therefore shaking).

As for Liuhe, that’s one of the absolutely crucial body (and mind) requirements, but the thing is, if it is externally apparent, it means you’re looking at a novice or a teacher making a point. Those who mastered this body method transcended to not keeping their focus on external coordinations, since they’re already embodied so deeply it’s barely noticeable to the observer.Where they do keep their attention is that exact elastic connectivity allowing to open and close to gather and then release. Ultimately, this is what it’s all about. This is the Yin and Yang described in the beginning of each old treatise you ever read.

[Bao]

Those who mastered this body method transcended to not keeping their focus on external coordinations, since they’re already embodied so deeply it’s barely noticeable to the observer.

There's some true to this. However, if something is "embodied", it means that it's always there. You can see this in most of XY masters. The body must move in a certain way to express real "xingyi power". If it doesn't, then there is no genuine XY type of power. This doesn't mean that it's bad. But it would be interesting to ask a person directly exactly why he has chosen the path he has chosen. ZMX is a very experienced person, he must have good reasons to do what he does.

[wayne hansen]

All 4 have what I feel is missing in the original post
In the original post I like his stepping and arm action
I just think they are not completed by correct body action
He does a thing that was in no contact karate where the withdrawing of the hand was faster than it’s issuing
This makes it look faster than it is
I see what I see if others don’t it’s just my perception
Take it for what it’s worth
I look at others like I do at myself
Form and intention are important in hsing I
If not it would have another name
The three levels of hsing I shoul always be there
As they should in any art
Obvious
Hidden
Mysterious

[everything]

i see that no contact karate thing as well.

agree with many of the individual points people make, but i think they are not necessarily related or a "debate" or anything like that. pieces of the elephant. probably some vocabulary issues or just sharing different povs on different portions. the tuishou thing, i'd disagree completely what "powers" it even though i certainly do want massive mobility and elasticity into old age for many reasons. lots of people who are amateur and mediocre athletes in all sports (like me) can learn some nice throws just with angles and timing, despite our massive lack of mobility and internal power (the second part not even needed for good throws). i can even play harder sports with these athleticism deficits. but that skill level is a different thing. messi's mobility looks pretty bad but his sport ability still looks alien. put it all together, sure, that's what we would all want, why not. if we're being super theoretical.

[HotSoup]

Form and intention are important in hsing I
If not it would have another name

If there's one thing that I learned about CMA, it's that the styles, names, schools, etc. are artificial constructs. The skill of a given person is the only thing that matters. Their interpretation may be as radically different from their teacher's as from their gongfu brothers', let alone other lineages and arts. Besides, the names have always attempted to describe what already exists. Trying to mold the art to better fit the name is detrimental to the art.

The three levels of hsing I shoul always be there
As they should in any art
Obvious
Hidden
Mysterious

The thing is, there are plenty of interpretations of these three levels. The one that makes the most sense to me is that Mingjin is the level of rote copying using brute force. Staying at it too long is a recipe for stagnation. Anjin is where there actually is some "Jin", somewhat crude but still better than "shouldering" your way through the opponent's defense. Huajin is when you transcend to using the whole-body power and don't care about integrating your leg, Dantian, and hand in a single Jin path. You have your whole body with the spider-web of jin paths (or tendomuscular trains if you will though I think this definition is unfair to the bones and their role) that you can activate instantly depending on where you want to apply force. They are three different levels of abstraction, and saying that all three should be present at all times doesn't make much practical sense. To me, it's a progression, not an accumulation. When you can do Huajin, you don't care about Anjin, and you laugh at Mingjin.

[wayne hansen]

To me they are just 3 levels of refinement
As you learn each one you can’t revert to the previous