Qing Gong

[Appledog]

Based on my travels, experience, and what was passed down by my da shi I have determined that it is highly likely that jumping rope is a fundamental practice of qing gong (lightness skill). I don't mean qing as a property of the body (ex 'song song song, qing qing qing, ...'), jin shen shu or anything like that but rather the jumping ability of wuxia. Or, am I?

Jump rope A)



Jump rope B)



Looks familiar? (B)



Looks familiar? (B2)





ok, so qing gong.



The reality of it is that you can use it to escape or to chase people who are escaping, yes, that is a big deal in the kind of architecture such as four walls house which is everywhere. There are some training methods which involve weighted shoes. There are other reasons like kicking (tantui) which is one secret reason why tantui is so important and why a rising kick is considered more valuable than a stomping kick (ex. Tantui No. 5).





The truth is, everyone with boots on the ground already knows, basically, how to start this, but no one really wants to undergo the training or spend the time and pain to get it.

There are some interesting training tricks you can do.



The uses can be almost infinite. See 57:01. Did you see it? This classic hop is a shaolin qing gong skill. 57:04, "ah, dui."



Look again at the short hop right before hidden hand punch; this is also like flying through the air suddenly.



You can also see this hop in a Flying Rainbow fan form; 0:20 after the down-block. This is extremely similar to xingyi beng quan and can be used to chase or to frustrate the opponent's positioning:



No 'special' materials need be used.



however, often there are ways to make them,



and even some which are passed down such as cast iron boots, with successive iron plate soles added as time goes by.

If you are interested in real kungfu, it is important to remember that people did not invent these before they did them. it is a process which you must experience. As you begin with jump rope, and walking with weighted shoes, and with jumping over ropes, fences and ditches, also walking with weights tied to you, both in water and out of water, jumping into and out of water also, you will often discover the next levels by yourself, because you will need to increase the difficulty by yourself.

Hopefully one day someone who is interested can make a breakthrough and bring back the traditional qing gong skills!

[everything]

look up Kadour Ziani

[Appledog]

look up Kadour Ziani

[everything]

I love that Maasai jump. It looks like an illusion of floating. And barely any "windup".

Ziani achieved a 56" vertical at only 5'10". I have zero interest in jumping, but found out about him due to rehabbing my knee using the "kneesovertoesguy" method. More or less their "kungfu" methods are the same from a distance. Make sure every lower body joint works toward the highest level of mobility. Achieve great ROM, then add strength through the entire ROM. Including "knees going past toes". It looks like all the old MA training would've had very similar training (and much more).

[wayne hansen]

A note of caution all my friends who were super fit when they were younger are having knee and hip replacements
Didn’t someone mention here CZW has done similar
One reason I never continued Chen training after 88

[Appledog]

A note of caution all my friends who were super fit when they were younger are having knee and hip replacements
Didn’t someone mention here CZW has done similar
One reason I never continued Chen training after 88

Yeah I heard a bunch of stories like that. If you wanted to fix the issue you would need a Ph.D. in Kinesiology to even know what the problem was. Off the record, I heard some people fixed the problem, but it required certain changes.

Speculating; there is a way to train that does not damage the knees, and sitting properly in a stance removes pressure in the knees (ex. a ji-ben 'gong'). It is almost as if there was a break in transmission and when the art was reconstructed they went directly to the high level and didn't retain certain training methods to work up into the high level, thus causing knee damage (and other kinds of damage such as damage from stomping, has been noted) as well as other types of damage. This kind of matches the historical record -- lines of Chen that come from before the war (such as Xi'an) and the really old people in the village, I heard don't have these problems as much.

I've even heard some lines started doing tantui to try and see if it fixes the problem later in life. It takes many lifetimes to perfect an art, even if you know where the treasure is buried.

[wayne hansen]

When I started I had knee injuries from football
It was hsing i and tai chi that fixed them
51 years later they are still going strong

[taiwandeutscher]

I had knee problems from skiing.
It was Taijiquan that fixed them.
35 yrs later better than ever!

[Trick]

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/ ... -60-inches


https://www.antena3.com/noticias/deport ... fb5d2.html

[everything]

IINM they got the definition of “vertical” wrong, but it’s still amazing

[everything]

I bet if you asked those Maasai to do "full Asian squat" with neutral spines or even walk once in that position, they could all do it. Probably have this "full" mobility just going about their days.

[charles]

A note of caution all my friends who were super fit when they were younger are having knee and hip replacements
Didn’t someone mention here CZW has done similar
One reason I never continued Chen training after 88

If by "CZW" you mean Chen Xiaowang, then, no. He tore the meniscus in one of his knees slipping on ice while practicing, so he said.

In the late 1990's, my training partner, a radiologist, was asked by CXW to look at the X-rays he had of his knee. She confirmed what he had been told - a torn meniscus in one knee - that required surgery to correct. It is an injury that is not uncommon in athletes. She demonstrated on a lemon what the surgery would involve. He had the surgery done in San Diego that summer and was up and largely recovered in a few days following the surgery. It surprised the surgeons that he recovered so quickly.

He did not have joint replacements.

Yeah I heard a bunch of stories like that. If you wanted to fix the issue you would need a Ph.D. in Kinesiology to even know what the problem was. Off the record, I heard some people fixed the problem, but it required certain changes.

Speculating; there is a way to train that does not damage the knees, and sitting properly in a stance removes pressure in the knees (ex. a ji-ben 'gong'). It is almost as if there was a break in transmission and when the art was reconstructed they went directly to the high level and didn't retain certain training methods to work up into the high level, thus causing knee damage (and other kinds of damage such as damage from stomping, has been noted) as well as other types of damage....

While it is true that lots of Taijiquan practitioners do have knee problems, I suggest that those problems are usually a result of incorrect practice, specifically of misalignment of the hip, knee and ankle during practice. A good teacher can identify that and correct it, should the student be willing to take correction. It isn't due to some lost secret of practice that modern practitioners don't know, leading to their knee problems.

[charles]

Look again at the short hop right before hidden hand punch; this is also like flying through the air suddenly.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this. Sometimes a short hop is just a short hop. This is pretty standard Chen training, nothing magical or mystical. I'm not aware of Chen practitioners being famous for flying skills - except, maybe, in the movies.

[origami_itto]

If you try to emulate what you those Chen masters doing without the right prepwork, you're going to screw up your knees.

[Appledog]

Look again at the short hop right before hidden hand punch; this is also like flying through the air suddenly.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this. Sometimes a short hop is just a short hop. This is pretty standard Chen training, nothing magical or mystical. I'm not aware of Chen practitioners being famous for flying skills - except, maybe, in the movies.

Elsewhere on the DVD Ma Hong specifically mentions the modification of adding a hop to hidden hand punch for the purpose of frustrating the opponent's position or adjusting your own position. I'll see if I can get a clip or a timestamp it's a big DVD.

As for lost secret, what I meant was when people try to copy a form they are not prepared to execute it is possible to cause damage. Such as going a little too deep, stretching a little too far, etc. will cause damage. It is common when you take a break from training and then attempt to train the way you used to, causing some sort of pull or sprain, as I have experienced many times. I speculate the same thing would happen if someone tried to learn too fast (copying forms without having the time to work on the jibengong). I've also experienced that. The paradox is that you only have a limited time to learn something so you must work hard but also be aware not to push yourself too hard. Even just increasing the training time suddenly can cause myriad issues. After a long time the jibengong starts to kick in and you can increase stringency and training time.