Proof: Chinese Marital Arts Originated in India

[Trick]

About fighting/warrior monks - they were found all over the world - here’s the Japanese ones https://www.ancient-origins.net/history ... ks-0017908

[Steve James]

Yes, there still are. However, there's a difference between monks practicing gongfu and monks killing. See what has happened in Myanmar. https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/responses/buddhist-inspired-genocide

[Bhassler]

I don't get the connection between the video and the comments. Not sure how some dude swinging a gada "proves" anything historical...

[GrahamB]

Cma originated in India??? Video or it didn’t happen.

[Urs Krebs]

I haven't watched all of the episodes, but liked the series a lot. I agree that they could become a book or expanded into a more elaborate documentary. The material is generally excellent. But just because I am naturally a Besserwisser and a dick, I am going to chime in and say that there's a minor mistake about the writings. It's correct that what Bodhidharma taught was the Lankāvatāra Sūtra (Sanskrit: लङ्कावतार सूत्र). But it's not a prominent scripture at all in Chan Buddhism. The most important text in Chinese Chan Buddhism is the Diamond Sutra (or the "Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā Sūtra", Sanskrit: वज्रच्छेदिका प्रज्ञापारमिता सूत्र, which actually means "The Diamond Cutter Perfection of Wisdom Sutra"). This was the Sutra that turned Hui Neng into a Buddhist and the main Sutra taught by Hui Neng and all patriarchs after him.

The Diamond Sutra is not exclusive to Chan Buddhism. It is found in other Mahayana Schools as well. With that said, i think it's a bit illogical to say that Boddhidarma didn't invent Chan. However, as it is with half legendary historical people it could be or not.

[Bao]

The Diamond Sutra is not exclusive to Chan Buddhism. It is found in other Mahayana Schools as well.

When did I say it's exclusive for Chan??? Of course it's not, it's older than Chan Buddhism. But it's still the most important sutra in Chan.

With that said, i think it's a bit illogical to say that Boddhidarma didn't invent Chan. However, as it is with half legendary historical people it could be or not.

Have no idea of your logic. Please prove that I am wrong.

Chinese Buddhism and Taoism were already mixed around 300 CE. Everything that is associated with Chan was prevalent in Chinese Buddhism before Boddhidharma came to China. What he taught was different than what makes up the core of Chan. This is facts. Just because most People believe something it doesn't mean that it's true. I know a well known and respected Chinese historian who claimed that Boddhidharma is the founder of Chan. It is still not true.

[Urs Krebs]

[
Have no idea of your logic.

The same here about yours.

[Steve James]

Well, more than likely it's a bit of both. Buddhism existed in China prior to Boddhidharma. But, for whatever reason, he was considered the founder of something different. There may not have even been a single person at a single time. Are there any other specific founders? If so, why aren't they considered originators of the practice.?

[yeniseri]

I may not always be logical but Chinese martial arts originated in China. It probably borrowed elements of Indian martial culture and it
continued towards its current future when the initial cultural borrowing stagnated (from India ) until where and what it is today.

The Buddhist (Indian/South Asian) naming conventions in CMA abound and I am sure influenced by Chan era associations. The pragmatic and
integrative environment of China preserved what may be termed 'getting rid of the old, or borrowing what may be seen as useful and throwing
out the rest that is not so good. The Kshatriya warrior class (India) though no longer a visible element of the society has been maintained in
different ways as opposed to actual institution like the Shaolin Temple and its institutional presence but the current revival of Kalaripayyarit
seems like an origin from where this all began and it took on a unique phase in China

[Trick]

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2021-07-03 ... 35329.html

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Yuezhi

https://www.history.com/topics/ancient- ... /silk-road

It seem that Buddhism entered China from Central Asia(turkestan), could very well be Iranian/Persian Buddhists rather than Indian.

[Steve James]

There's plenty of historical evidence for a relation between India and Persia, including genetic research. So, imo, the question comes down to specifics. Who originated martial arts? How do we know?
I think martial arts (theory and practice) were invented because of war and the need for training and a system. So, it makes sense that afa our written history it has to go back at least to Babylonians and the first civilizations. Iraq and Iran, nowadays.

I think the "originated in" idea is flawed. How many of us have had teachers who've said that all Asian martial arts come from China? At least we can see a relation between White Crane and Okinawan (iirc) karate. Is there a specific connection we can see between traditional Persian martial arts and tcma?

I'd argue that the greatest influence of martial arts on a culture happens when it has to go to war with another culture. As soon as that happens, the one that works best is adopted by both.

[Steve James]

Re Indian martial arts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqJuyzcZsN8

[ThomasK]

I don't think it's all that important where it comes from. Does it work, does it change you, yes or no. That matters for me.

[wushutiger]

Unfortunately, much of the "Kalari" today has been created in recent history, and it draws from many other arts, including Chinese performance based martial arts, which you can clearly see in it at times. The history and dating has also inflated over time, another habit that has been taken from China in recent history, and much like China it is connected to nationalism, hence the rhetoric becoming more widespread and "sure" of itself, again, much like China has done, instead pushing itself to be the "origin of chinese martial arts". Logic and evidence however contradicts this.