Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

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Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:05 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMw_Jtn3Avc



Its in the middle of the clip.
Don't see this kind of stuff too much in modern judo. :)
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:11 am

In my opinion Mifune had real internal skill. :)
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby SunLutang06 on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:06 am

wow
That was really sweet.
You can see from the clip that judo indeed came from a jujuitsu background.
I was watching aikido clips of Nishio last evening and he showed exactly why aikido came from a swordfighting style.
It s a shame you cant find much teachers who can show you the style as it was ment to be. Come to think about it its also like that in the CMA community ;D
love the throw counters
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:04 pm

That was really cool.

You know many people think Mifune had internal skills. Doesn't that beg the question of how he got them? Did he just stumble onto them, did he know specific exercises that developed them? Or is there something inherent about grappling and throwing that has the potential to develop along that path?
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:25 pm

DeusTrismegistus wrote:That was really cool.

You know many people think Mifune had internal skills. Doesn't that beg the question of how he got them? Did he just stumble onto them, did he know specific exercises that developed them? Or is there something inherent about grappling and throwing that has the potential to develop along that path?


I would say his internal skills have more to do with understanding force than internal movement (though I'm sure he also had that to some extent given the quality of his movements). I think it probably just came from training really solid and for a really long time.
I believe its commonly held belief in Judo that he was the second best judoka (after Kano), though I suspect he was probably the very best. :)
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Bodywork on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:56 pm

Internal "movement?" or Internal "connection"...because that is the source of movement on or off the ground and in free exchange?... Formless?
none of which will ever be successfully debated here so ...

On another note -and to tie into the "Internal conditioning before sparring?" thread
Some may find it interesting to know a story recounted in the book "The fighting spirit of Japan."
An occidental judoka gave a large cash gift to the early Kodokan in the 1920's, As a thank you he was brought to see an aikijujutsu teacher. Once there the Occidental Judoka was encouraged to .....push on the chest of the AJ man, and then try to pull him over, then try to choke him and even pull on his ears to pull him over. Then he was thrown around. Having never seen or even heard of testing this way and why you even would consider it...the stunned Judoka asked the AJ man "how could this be? Where is this power coming from?". He was told it was a study of how to use the center in AJ. He asked "Do many know this power."
And there, in Japan, in the 1920's almost a hundred years ago he was told. "No, not any more, very, very, few train this way anymore."
Interestingly the Occidental had the wherewithal to later question Kano's son about it. Kano's son recounted a current 6th dan in the art that was undefeated. His secret? He trained this way.

Of further interest may be an incident in the late 1930's when Takeda Sokaku (founder of Daito ryu aikijujutsu) stormed the stage at the budokan in front of a large public crowd filled with seriously educated budo men and a general audience gathered there for a budo exhibition. He started ranting how "the arts being shown were not the true arts of Japan and how the modern arts had ruined true bujutsu of Japan, That what was being shown was fake and he needed to show real bujutsu for the sake of the country! (not way to win friends and influence people eh?). He proceeded to then challenge the 5th, and 6th dans (Judoka as it was reported) to all come at him at once and do what they would. He started tossing them all over the stage and pinning them and insulting them while he did so in a loud voice. Many there were angry and found it startling and awe inspiring all at the same time. One fellow a student of Ueshiba and a koryu weapons guy said many were whispering in the crowd suddenly realizing who it was they were watching "Takeda!"
Oddly one account I read the Budo man himself a tenth dan and Koryu menkyo said it was 'thee most stunning display of budo he had ever seen before or since!" And yet Takeda was so frightening and rude that he would never consider training with him.
Okay
Next story.
I have it on good authority from another Koryu menkyo, who was told that at the Kodokan -every once in a while this little old man would show up unannounced and Kano would say to his guys "hey, try to throw that old man!" the seniors would beg off, but the new bully boys would give it a whirl, and not be able to throw the old guy but would instead get their asses handed to them. One event that was notable was a guy who gave the old dude a hard time not playing by the rules. Supposedly the old dud tatpped him on the hip and dislocated it. Who was the old guy. Ueshiba! The founder of Aikido and senior student of....? Takeda.
I have played with enough Master level teachers of the ICMA to know that the internal methods of the Japanese arts must have come from China, there are just too many similarities. Unfortunately, the Japanese arts are just like the Chinese ones. Most people are doing waza and want to only learn how to fight. And while they attain high rank and either are or..these days it is fair to say WERE...convinced they knew about internals...They really don't have a clue about the deeper stuff.

Last, Mifune is displaying there for all to see another aspect of internal conditioning which was asked in two other threads here. Someone relegated internals to only "power" and that you don’t have it if your feet are off the ground. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. Connection is the key and your feet being planted are but one part. And here some of that is on display. There are other videos of Mifune outweighed by men maybe 75 to a 100 lbs. and he was throwing the guy at will.
Sadly..and truly so sad. Many men will watch and all they see it technique and movement and never really put it together that it is the body conditioning that ....creates....all those opportunities you mistakenly relegate to technical skill. Remove the internal conditioning and all the waza all the great technique you see...would never have happened in the first place.
Conditioning before sparring threads?
Or sparring before conditioning?
Why are these men so rare? And so very many of their own students so poor?
Were they never shown or told what to do?
Or was it that they threw away their most valuable heritage and spent all their time talking about better submissions and throwing techniques that in the end never even came close to reaching that level of excellence.
I would speculate that- no internal connections…and in the end all those opportunities they were trying to *make happen* never were to be realized by his students.


Cheers
Dan
“Jujutsu…happens”
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby XiaoXiong on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:10 pm

Nice post. Propps.
J
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Interloper on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:36 pm

Hey Mix --

Think about what Bodywork just wrote: Someone relegated internals to only "power" and that you don’t have it if your feet are off the ground. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. Connection is the key and your feet being planted are but one part. And here some of that is on display. There are other videos of Mifune outweighed by men maybe 75 to a 100 lbs. and he was throwing the guy at will.

Vis a vis that, here's another I like because the guy Mifune is playing with is a much bigger, heavier opponent so you see the contrast more clearly. Watch in particular how heavy Mifune - a skinny little old man - seems when the big jamoke tries to throw him.

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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Brady on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:47 pm

Holy f the throw he did at 1:54 in Interloper's post was crazy! After that the guy lost his cool and was easily thrown
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby dragontigerpalm on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:57 pm

Great clips.
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Bodywork on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:01 pm

Hi ya Brady
Actually at around 1:52 Mifune brings the guy into him and then at exactly 1:54 you will see him shoot his spine, rising at that guy out of Mifunes left leg. Think of the rising power we talk about. You can see the loose connection he has with the guy but the guy is lifting when...Mifune does a spiraling weight drop (sutemi waza) shooting in his right leg and taking the guy over. Its a classic up- to -go down sacrifice throw. I think what you are seeing at 1:58. I think the guy is trying the same throw on Mifune-you see him start to weight drop and shoot his right leg in but....he forgot the connections!!
oops..down ya go. If you notice skinny little mifune shook the guy off him and lead his force to know-where-land..plop!
Cheers
Dan
"Jujutsu... happens"
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Brady on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:08 pm

That set up is so damn subtle that there's no way I would have seen it coming. When shit like that happens you gotta laugh, know you are outclassed and keep trying.
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby Bodywork on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:59 pm

Yup. That's why he's the legend and we're not. I guess someones gotta do it.
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby middleway on Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:27 am

the dude was awesome. like the way he was drawing the attention down with the little kicks.

Massive fan of his Judo..... and Traditional Judo in general. I trained with a very traditional Judoka for a while and his rooting, listening and turning were all amazing.

cheers
Chris
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Re: Kyuzo Mifune showing judo sd techniques

Postby XiaoXiong on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:18 pm

That throw was amazing. Mifune makes me feel hopelessly suckass. I've watched all of his videos ad infinitum. The smoothness and clarity in his movement is brilliant.
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