Short videoes of Ma Yuehliang playin tuishou

[velalavela]

The body shape and stance look like Ma, but true, the video is pretty fuzzy.

That arm drag (done here by the opponent) is supposed to be a favourite move of Ma’s.

So I’d not be surprised he knew how to counter it himself pretty well.

Also one of the 13 methods of Ma’s Wu Style push hands excercises drills that move.

My Tai Chi teacher often catches me out with it and I can rarely attack from it so the vid gives me some ideas to work with anyway.

Again thanks for posting it.

[Shanghaijay]

The person in the vid is Qian Cao Qun. He was a senior disciple to Ma.

Shen Tiegen was one of his senior disciples.

Both Adam Frank and I studied with Qian in the 90's in Shanghai.

Jay

[velalavela]

Thanks for that clarification Jay.

He learnt his Tai Chi very well. Some nice skill on display.

[cdobe]

The person in the vid is Qian Cao Qun. He was a senior disciple to Ma.

Shen Tiegen was one of his senior disciples.

Both Adam Frank and I studied with Qian in the 90's in Shanghai.

Jay

Thank you, Jay. You have been very lucky that you had the opportunity to train with this man.

CD

[Shanghaijay]

Thank you, Jay. You have been very lucky that you had the opportunity to train with this man.

CD

Yes, he is definitely one of the all time greats. Very focused on Taiji as a martial art.

Jay

[AllanF]

That is a really nice clip of Qian Cao Qun. Excellent stuff.

[ppscat]

Well, it's good to see that many MYL's disciples have/had great push hands skills. With that fuzzy video it was easy to get mistaken who he was, as the way MYL and Qian Cao Qun perform push hands look very similar, at least to untrained eyes.

Velalavela, in our version of the Yang Style Two-Man Set there is a countermove to an armdrag (movements 36 and 37) that resembles what shows Qian Cao Qun in the clip posted before, though we cross the opponent's (left) arm. It's more a "Gao Tan Ma" than a "Ji" as QCQ shows. Also you can see Sha Gouzheng and partner doing a soft and very distant performance, where the countermove is just an "An" to the right arm. Look at 1:27




.

[GrahamB]

I like that clip by Qian Cao Qun a lot better than the clips by Ma with the fawning students.

[CaliG]

Hi Jay,

I've heard a lot about Qian Laoshi, but I was wondering if you knew of any bios of his that are in print in English.

Greg

[Andy_S]

When I was in Chen Village over the summer learning Chen Zijun's PH, the "armdrag" - actually an underhook rather than an armdrag per se - was the key set-up move before a whole range of technqiues could be applied. And yes...nice sharp counter.

[Bao]

I like that clip by Qian Cao Qun a lot better than the clips by Ma with the fawning students.

I think they have all to much respect for Ma. There are some very good clips of him. But when seein' some of his students... well...

[fuga]

It was interesting that Ma already had Qian up on his toes before Qian attempted the armdrag.

J, does Qian still teach? I'd be interested in hearing more about him too. One of these days Shanghai.

[Shanghaijay]

It was interesting that Ma already had Qian up on his toes before Qian attempted the armdrag.

J, does Qian still teach? I'd be interested in hearing more about him too. One of these days Shanghai.

That was not Ma that was pushing with Qian. Qian is the guy on the left you are mistaking for Ma.

Unfortunately Qian passed on around 2000.

As for Shen Tiegen:

Shen Tiegen began his study of martial arts with Shuiajiao at the age of seven. China at this time was in the midst of the Cultural Revolution and life was chaotic. Fights at the time were commonplace. A boy of small stature and little strength he was often bullied and subsequently had to learn to defend himself against multiple opponents and people much larger then him. As a result he developed his tingjin to a high level and his knowledge of the moves and leverage became
quite high.

At the age of 15 he began his study of Ten Animals Six Harmonies Xinyi Quan while continuing to study Shuijiao. The training was rigorous and started early in the morning. All free time was spent training and studies were often neglected.
In his early 20’s in addition to his Xinyi training he was exposed to Ge Dou, Shuijiao and Qinna of the Chinese Military system. This is a very simple yet effective system.

In 1980, at the age of 25 Shen Tiegen was introduced to Qian Cao Qun a noted disciple of Ma Yueliang and began training in the Wu Jianquan Style. He became a disciple of Qian Cao Qun and was later picked by Ma Yueliang to become an indoor student under Ma Yueliang and Wu Yin Hua, where he trained with them for over ten years until the passing of Wu Yin Hua.

Shen Tiegen has practiced with police, military and martial artists from many styles and countries. Because of his small stature and knowledge of actual application he is recognized internationally and in Shanghai as one of the top practitioners of Wu Style fighting skill and tuishou

[Shanghaijay]

The guy pushing with Qian laoshi is Zhu Fengtai. He is one of his disciples. Mr. Zhu can still be found most mornings in People's park.

Jay

[fuga]

Doh!

My bad, sorry. Thanks for the info anyway.

I need to look at those videos again.

-pete (feeling stupid)