Tai Ji Tong Bei

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NSSzL9PK9M

A mixture of Yang Tai Ji and Zhang Ce Tong bei.

[SPJ]

A documentary about Zhao Jian Guo.

He mentioned that

there are 10 kinds of li.

A. 5 soft gong: Zhan Lian Mian Nian Shui

contact, link, continuous, stick, follow.

B. 5 hard gong: leng tang cui kuai yin

cold, bouncy, crisp, fast, hard.

5 hard li are from body and limbs with the right practice.

5 soft li are considered as nei gong practice.

--

[SPJ]

Zhang Ce was an instructor at Bei Jing Kuo Shu guan.

He learned 5 elements Tong Bei from a daoist priest Han from white cloud guan at Bei Jing.

He also learned Yang Tai Ji from the third son of Yang Lu Chan, Yang Jian Hou.

Zhang Ce then mixed the two.

--

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zDcAPTtw_M

2 examples of Qi style 5 element Tong Bei.

1. piercing palm with low kick.

You use piercing palms left and right. If you contact the opponent's hand/wrist or da shou, you may grab.

the other hand may punch or palm strike.

2. splitting/opening door palm or lie men zhang

you use upward palm or tiao zhang to open the opponent's door.

--

[chrislomas]

The more Tong Bei I see the more similar to Splashing Hands methods (both power generation and fighting tactics) it appears to be.

[Royal Dragon]

The more Tong Bei I see the more similar to Splashing Hands methods (both power generation and fighting tactics) it appears to be.

Reply]
It is interesting that you say that. Tong Bei was the primary style of the Tang, and Sung Dynasty Military. Tai Tzu Chang Chuan is built on it's foundation. During the Sung dynasty, the core military arts were taught to Shaolin by Zhao Kunag Yin's Generals. He sent them thier to keep them busy so they would not have time to plot against him.

During the Sung, and Yuan dynasty, these military arts were the primary fighting styles of the Shaolin temple.

Splashing hands is supposed to be the old fighting style of the Shaolin Temple guards right?

That being said it makes perfect sense that it is actually some sort of Tong Bei.

Tong Bei is very old, 3000 years at least, maybe older.

[mixjourneyman]

If I ever get the chance, I really want to learn some tong bei.

[chrislomas]

RD,
Yes, one of my students noticed the similarities and so I began looking at more clips and spending some time with a friend who has a modest Tong Bei practice, and ever since I am convinced there is some sort of historic link.
Best Chris

[salcanzonieri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zDcAPTtw_M

2 examples of Qi style 5 element Tong Bei.

1. piercing palm with low kick.

You use piercing palms left and right. If you contact the opponent's hand/wrist or da shou, you may grab.

the other hand may punch or palm strike.

2. splitting/opening door palm or lie men zhang

you use upward palm or tiao zhang to open the opponent's door.

--

Hey RD, this is also found in Zhao Kuang Yin's Lao Hong Quan Yi Lu.
As you know, Zhao practiced military martial arts.

There is also the Hang Tong Tong Bi that resembles Northern Mantis that comes from the same time period and army.
The Shaolin sets that come from his Tong Bi have Mantis hands as opening movement.

Hang Tong was a General along with Zhao Kuang Yin in the same army. Hang Tong was stationed at the gates of Shantung province (home of Northern Mantis). He was a friend of Zhao's and renowned for his Tong Bi (older way of saying it in Chinese). Tong decided out of loyalty to stick with the dynasty he was serving under and Zhao's troops had to kill him and his battalion to clinch the take over of the throne.
Zhao attended his funeral (killing him was "just business, not personal").

Anyways, in honor of Zhao and Hang Tong, both these styles are the primary material that Northern Mantis is based on concerning the 18 masters getting together (really 16, since Zhao and Hang Tong weren't there).
Also, they are the first two in Shaolin Tai Zu Chang Quan Yi Lu set's root material as well.

Hang Tong's Tong Bi is considered the closest anyone will get to see what the military martial arts was like during the mid-900s AD.

(not to be confused with Hongtong Tong Bei, which is the TB from Hongtong city in Shanxi Province, where the Chen family emigrated from before reaching Henan province)

[salcanzonieri]

The more Tong Bei I see the more similar to Splashing Hands methods (both power generation and fighting tactics) it appears to be.

Reply]
It is interesting that you say that. Tong Bei was the primary style of the Tang, and Sung Dynasty Military. Tai Tzu Chang Chuan is built on it's foundation. During the Sung dynasty, the core military arts were taught to Shaolin by Zhao Kunag Yin's Generals. He sent them thier to keep them busy so they would not have time to plot against him.

During the Sung, and Yuan dynasty, these military arts were the primary fighting styles of the Shaolin temple.

Splashing hands is supposed to be the old fighting style of the Shaolin Temple guards right?

That being said it makes perfect sense that it is actually some sort of Tong Bei.

Tong Bei is very old, 3000 years at least, maybe older.

There no record anywhere of anything called Splashing Hands as being the Shaolin temple guard's style.
The only styles that are listed as temple guard styles are in Shaolin records are:
Sung era: East, West, South, and North Gate Tong Bi (each gate did a different version)
Yuan era: Vajra Kan Jia Quan
Ming era: Luohan Quan
Ching era: Fohan Quan and other styles.

[chrislomas]

There no record anywhere of anything called Splashing Hands as being the Shaolin temple guard's style.

Yes this is oral history and I have never set too much store by it (From different sources I have learnt three different styles which were suppossed to be Shaolin Guards methods, those guards must have been busy). However:

The only styles that are listed as temple guard styles are in Shaolin records are:

Sung era: East, West, South, and North Gate Tong Bi (each gate did a different version)

that is interesting if there is some historic link (or otherwise there is just some concurrent evolution going on).
Best
Chris

[Royal Dragon]

Hey RD, this is also found in Zhao Kuang Yin's Lao Hong Quan Yi Lu.
As you know, Zhao practiced military martial arts.

Reply]
What is found in Zhao's Lao Hong Yi lu?

[kal]

There no record anywhere of anything called Splashing Hands as being the Shaolin temple guard's style.
The only styles that are listed as temple guard styles are in Shaolin records are:
Sung era: East, West, South, and North Gate Tong Bi (each gate did a different version)
Yuan era: Vajra Kan Jia Quan
Ming era: Luohan Quan
Ching era: Fohan Quan and other styles.

The reference to Lohan Quan being the Temple Guards' style is pretty interesting.

There's a teacher called Carl Totton (http://www.taoistinstitute.com/classschedule.html) who teaches Lohan Quan and his website describes it as "Monk Fist style or Lohan Chuan Fa, the secret art only taught to the elite monks who guarded the Shaolin Temple gates."

The interesting thing is that Mr Totton was a senior student of Tiny Lefiti, the person who brought Splashing Hands to the USA.

So could Splashing Hands actually be Lohan Quan? (or derived from it?)

[Royal Dragon]

I don't think so. Louhan is it's own thing.

[kal]

Slightly off-topic, but I believe that according to Bubishi, Lohan Chuan was also one of the styles that gave rise to Okinawan karate. (Southern white crane being another).

Back to the Splashing Hands thing ... does it seem plausible that it's actually some kind of Tonbeiquan in origin?

Compare that original video of Tongbei with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZqIiavozk