CMC Disciple?

[Bob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kcRtKMm ... re=channel



已故黃性賢師傅表演楊式太極拳內勁
教拳地點：馬來西亞

[Ron Panunto]

More parlor tricks and cult worship of the master.

[C.J.Wang]

That's Huang Sheyng Sheng, a Fukien White Crane expert who later studied Taiji under CMC.

[ShortFormMike]

"More parlor tricks and cult worship of the master."

i was just pushin' w/ a guy two fridays ago who lived in taiwan for about 5 years. he competed in tournaments and tried to get with as many masters he could. he was actually kind of shameless when it came to using full force on respected masters and ended up dumping a couple.

he said he's only met two people that had something exceptional. both were students of huang sheng shyan (one was in taiwan, the other in canada).

he did say that most masters, huang included, had plenty of jumpy students who looked best in demonstrations. but huang was the real deal.

did he not also take 1st place in a PH tournament by beating hong yi xiang in 1955? or was it '58?

[Wanderingdragon]

Parlor tricks true, but also solid structural training. With this type of practice you find it easier to relax under pressure and create gaping wholes in your opponents defenses for offensive opportunities. The students also practice being structurally connected , as, if any one joint falls lose , there is the possibility of injury, as any acrobat will attest to.

[C.J.Wang]

"More parlor tricks and cult worship of the master."

i was just pushin' w/ a guy two fridays ago who lived in taiwan for about 5 years. he competed in tournaments and tried to get with as many masters he could. he was actually kind of shameless when it came to using full force on respected masters and ended up dumping a couple.

he said he's only met two people that had something exceptional. both were students of huang sheng shyan (one was in taiwan, the other in canada).

he did say that most masters, huang included, had plenty of jumpy students who looked best in demonstrations. but huang was the real deal.

did he not also take 1st place in a PH tournament by beating hong yi xiang in 1955? or was it '58?

Does the person that your friend run into in Taiwan happens to hang out at 228 memorial park in Taipei sometimes and also owns his private Taiji school? He's the only guy from Huang's lineage -- Huang's grand student-- that I can think of who is good and teaches openly.

Yes, Huang did take 1st in PH divison in '59. But did you know that later on the same day he challenged the champion of the free fighting divison, a Shuai Jiao/Cha Chuan master named Chang Yin-Jiang, and got thrown on the ground twice in the first round and gave up? (The competition included PH, weapon fighting, and free fighting divisions. The rule at the time allowed the champion of one division to challenge and fight the champion of another.)

[fuga]

Weapon fighting? What was the rule set for that and what weapons were allowed?

[C.J.Wang]

Weapon fighting? What was the rule set for that and what weapons were allowed?

From what I read and if I remember correctly, I believe it was divided into short and long weapon groups--sword and spear.

[Ron Panunto]

"More parlor tricks and cult worship of the master."

i was just pushin' w/ a guy two fridays ago who lived in taiwan for about 5 years. he competed in tournaments and tried to get with as many masters he could. he was actually kind of shameless when it came to using full force on respected masters and ended up dumping a couple.

he said he's only met two people that had something exceptional. both were students of huang sheng shyan (one was in taiwan, the other in canada).

he did say that most masters, huang included, had plenty of jumpy students who looked best in demonstrations. but huang was the real deal.

did he not also take 1st place in a PH tournament by beating hong yi xiang in 1955? or was it '58?

I don't doubt that HSS has skills, it's just that his students are way over reacting which makes it look like HSS has more skill than he probably really has (or had, if he has since passed).

[C.J.Wang]

Yes, Huang did take 1st in PH divison in '59. But did you know that later on the same day he challenged the champion of the free fighting divison, a Shuai Jiao/Cha Chuan master named Chang Yin-Jiang, and got thrown on the ground twice in the first round and gave up? (The competition included PH, weapon fighting, and free fighting divisions. The rule at the time allowed the champion of one division to challenge and fight the champion of another.)

Ah, yes, documented history . . . a rarely-used tool in critiquing the oral traditions of yore. As with the oral tradition of Wang Yen-nien's taijiquan lineage, averring that Zhang Qinglin won one of the national guoshu tournaments of the late 1920s (held at Nanking) . . . and there does not appear to even be a record of Zhang's entry, let alone victory, in any of those national competitions.

Hi Tom,

The competition involving Huang is very well documented and can be found in Taiwan Kuoshu Federation's official record, along with books written by various authors who actually participated in the competition. Two months ago I went to visit an 81-year-old Shuai Jiao master in Taiwan, who relayed the story again to me in detail as he was actually in the audience to witness the event back in '59. (He was proud and happy because a SJ guy had thrown a Taiji master on his butt in open compeition. )

As for Wang Yen-Nien's Taiji lineage......another big can of warm in Taiwan's CMA circle. Some claim that his Taiji came from a source unrelated to Yang style at all, which explains it's unusual form and movement.

[fuga]

Weapon fighting? What was the rule set for that and what weapons were allowed?

From what I read and if I remember correctly, I believe it was divided into short and long weapon groups--sword and spear.

Thanks. How did they score the weapons sparring? Touches? Hits to specific targets? I'm just curious how they set up the weapons fighting.

[middleway]

you know when i look at demo's like this i completely and totally ignor the flying students now. Its irrelevant really. They obviously have some issues but who cares.

The thing to watch is what the master is doing. What is it that is creating the force, where is it originating etc. Especially a guy like this who is reputed to have had very good skills.

lifes too short to get bent out of shape about people flying across a room. ;-)

Chris

[taiwandeutscher]

Master Huang Xingxian was disdussed so often, but I still have to say, when I had met him in early and late 80's at his brother's in Taibei, he was already old and not impresive anymore, sorry!