Clips from class last night

[GrahamB]

Just recorded these last night. Working on some CLF applications



Then messing around with some takedowns. It was working too easy on the first guy so I decided to try it on somebody bigger, and guess what - doesn't work so well! At this point I realised how that takedown wasn't a one-size fits all technique - you have to customise your application to the way they attack so I experiment with varying it a bit based on this body angle, etc.. OK, ok, I'm a slow learner, but I'm lucky enough to have some willing victims who don't mind me experimenting on them - I like the way he's not giving up at the end until I make him tap (yeah, I already know I should have knelt on his upper arm to start with and avoided the whole problem, but I wanted to see where he was going with it )

[shawnsegler]

You're a brute, Graham.

[GrahamB]

Shawn baby - you know I'm a lover not a fighter

[shawnsegler]

Built for comfort, not for speed.

[GrahamB]

Built for comfort, not for speed.

LOL

[Areios]

in the second vid at 1:36 when you charge in to the oppenent body. Get prepared to get grabed or be very fast. but don't know why aren't you try to grab the legs if they are there. I realy like that move. It can be a good takedown or a good get away from the arms.

[GrahamB]

Hi,

Not sure I completely understand you, but I think you're saying why am I changing the quick takedown on the leg into something else? If so, then the natural way his body is angled when he punches is to lean forward a lot, and that puts his hips further back, and to reach them for the takedown felt like I would eat something to the face - it didn't feel good, so I was trying to go 'with' him not 'against' him and changed to a different takedown.

I like that shoulder strike takedown, but like you say you're vulnerable to other things while you are doing it *if* they are on balance - I think it would work best following a strike where you've rocked them and have a brief instant where you can move in fast and do it.

Cheers,
G

[Areios]

yeah sorry I was very tired when I typed that. I don't want to go into the if and that thing. I just don't know why you didn't cached the leg when you hitted him with a shoulder.
And the second stuff was that his move is in my opinion or experienc to give a short shoulder strike and mostly use it in a boob and wave style because you can stuck there if you do the one hit and stay there thing. It's not about your stuff, i know that nobody will going to stay there for long. Just wanted to comment something "useful".
I hope that maked it a little clearer.

[C.J.Wang]

The takedown you show in clip two is one of my favorites from Bagua as well. When I do it, I usually go in at a more sideway angle rather than relatively straight-in. I also:

- Put my lead foot behind his with Kou Bu (toe-in step) for potential tripping, shin grinding, and applying pressure to his knee as my weight shifts forward.
- Grab his calf with my back hand and pull towards me as my lead han pushs forward at his hip joint or inside the knee joint. (Against taller, bigger people, as a smaller guy myself, I prefer going quite low and pushing at the knee. It is just a weaker joint in most tall and big guys.)

At .52 when the first takedown doesn't drop him smoothly, I'd immediately grab his lead leg with both arms, move my left leg behind the right leg, turn my body to the left, spin, and bring him down in a circular motion.

[GrahamB]

Thanks for the ideas! I'll have a play around with those...

The next thing I was going to try was to pull up the leg and press the hip first... then go in with the shoulder, instead of doing all 3 together. I think that might make it a bit... smoother....

[Pandrews1982]

Second clip. You block right hand, about to hit the hip and knee to take down and BLAM that's when I'd smash the back of your skull in with my left hand.

IMO that takedown leaves you wide open to a strike to the back of the head or to the kidneys/spine as you move in but I guess it comes down to timing, if you can get it before the other guy reacts. But even if you do that movement quickly a guy who is more stable or who takes just the slightest slide step back with the left leg will be in a position to kick your ass and you'll have to do something else. Which is why I thought when you changed in the last bit it was a good tactic but your student should have countered too instead of locking down and trying to fight the lock.

I think to add to the drill you could do the takedown a few times, the other guy adds in a counter, work out how to deal with the counter with your own and continue as such so that the drill becomes a rolling two man thing rather than a 1 step application. Once you get to four or five movements you do it a bit faster and with a bit more intensity and it will put that bit of pressure into the stuation which can make the techniques fall apart and show you where you might need more work or if you're just doing something dumb. Don't do more than four or five movements or it becomes a two person form and you spend more time trying to remember it than doing it. Just my opinion. Plus your students punch like pussies man

[GrahamB]

Thanks - with friends like you who needs enemies?

Second clip. You block right hand, about to hit the hip and knee to take down and BLAM that's when I'd smash the back of your skull in with my left hand.

We're only going light for raining purposes. If you think of that 'block' as being more like a strike into their chest (or better, face) that would be how you'd 'use it' for real - like Pao Quan. The blocking hand isn't the one doing the technique, it's the striking hand that causes the technique to work.

IMO that takedown leaves you wide open to a strike to the back of the head or to the kidneys/spine as you move in but I guess it comes down to timing, if you can get it before the other guy reacts. But even if you do that movement quickly a guy who is more stable or who takes just the slightest slide step back with the left leg will be in a position to kick your ass and you'll have to do something else. Which is why I thought when you changed in the last bit it was a good tactic but your student should have countered too instead of locking down and trying to fight the lock.

Agree that done wrong or in a moronic way it would leave you open, but see above.

. Just my opinion. Plus your students punch like pussies man

Agreed, yet still they punch harder than yours, old friend!

[Pandrews1982]

No offence meant I just think the way you're doing it could be taken up a notch.

If that "block" is really a strike then strike him. I think the reaction would be different and the takedown might not be the most appropriate thing to do there. If it was done like a pao then he might go down from that anyway. But that's moot as I wasn't so bothered about the initial "block" just thought that takedown isn't a great thing to be doing in my opinion its a bit of a risky move, you said yourself you changed it because you thought you were going to get hit.

Agreed, yet still they punch harder than yours, old friend!

You say the funniest things sometimes

[GrahamB]

LOL - you try getting somebody to repeatedly punch you when you punch them full force in the face each time they do it. Then see how many goes you get...

When you don't have to go to war and kill people the next day and you're just training there has to be some sort of middle ground between the unpleasant reality of kicking somebody's head in for real: http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5884 and tree-hugging feel-good Tai Chi for seniors.

Seems to me people spend a lot of time getting arsey about where other people draw their particular line in the sand in that 'not real' middle-ground, when all it contains is different versions of 'not real'. Don't seem worth getting upset about to me.

Thanks for your thoughts. I shall waste no time in acting on them.

[bruce]

one of the interesting things i saw in the takedown you showed in relation to the bagua i have been practicing is a "hit and run" i call it.
on the contrary to being in danger of being hit in the kidneys etc if you just continue through and walk/step/run what ever you want to call it.
as you do the move you show just keep walking and changing directions like a pinball

the above i am sure would make total sense shown in person but types is probably a stupid riddle