Baji shovel kick

[Bao]

interesting. . . . He touches the bricks with the foot and then adjusts them to make sure there is space between them . . .
Those are not solid blocks. I bet that I could not hurt anyone if I bashed someone's head with one of those.

Anyway, I like the kick very much, though I still prefer a snap kick just below the knee. It can be extremely fast and this part of the bone is very, very fragile.

[gryphonz]

Bao... Those are cinder blocks. They're heavy and they hurt.

[Ian]

These kicks are not "found in" any particular style, they're found in the person who trains them.

[Bhassler]

In all fairness, if someone successfully landed on of those solidly on me, I probably wouldn't fight back, either....

Just to clarify: I didn't mean to imply that the kick was devastating-- I'm just pretty much of a pussy.

[Teazer]

These kicks are not "found in" any particular style, they're found in the person who trains them.

Me confused.

[I am...]

That kick is trained in the Hung Gar I practice pretty heavily. There are 3 main variations on it as well. On a person with conditioned shins, it is probably not going to break anything no matter how hard you do it unless you already outweigh them or get lucky. It does however work great to knock their feet out from under them, draw their intention down there, injure the knee on someone that doesn't keep enough bend in the leg, or stop kick the leg as they kick/step to name a few. There are some great ways to use this in throwing as well, and the angle it comes from makes it a good one to sneak under the radar.

They don't generally break very easily, and that is kind of by design I am guessing. The part of the bone directly below the knee is one of the strongest parts, and is often the culprit in the breaks seen in the often posted youtube videos. The weakest part of the shin stucturally is in the middle of the bone, and specifically impacting along the flat side, as opposed to the sharper front. Take a look at how the bone itself is shaped, it provides some clues as well.

[JAB]

There is a whole thread dedicated to shin kicks guys.
As for where this or that technique are found....many styles share similar techniques, because they are all based on the physical structure and functional anatomy & physiology of human beings. So naturally Xing Yi, Baji, Mantis,......... share similar techniques.
Cheers
Jake

[Jeice]

Depending on your intent it's in Niahanchi shodan *shrug*

[cdobe]

These kicks are not "found in" any particular style, they're found in the person who trains them.

The fast form of my style contains a lot of them

[Ian]

These kicks are not "found in" any particular style, they're found in the person who trains them.

Me confused.

In other words, your form has move x, but do you have move x?

For example, say your grandmaster's teacher taught him a reaping throw, which he trained for years and years until he could pull it off on anyone.

Then your grandmaster peppered it throughout the form, because he loved that move dearly.

Then you get his 1,000 students who say things like "we have loads of reaping throws in our style", even though they haven't internalized anything.

Unless they internalize it, all they have is a training method.

Truth is, you can extrapolate kicks to the shin from almost any style, but whether you own that move is a different matter altogether.

[Teazer]

In other words, your form has move x, but do you have move x?

I suppose. However that could be applied to anything. Like saying that grappling isn't found in BJJ, it's found in people. I suppose, but the frequency is a lot higher in some styles than others.

Truth is, you can extrapolate kicks to the shin from almost any style, but whether you own that move is a different matter altogether.

Not so many have a forward stamp kick making contact with the heel & with toes pointing outwards. I'd say a few styles will include it as a fundamental part of their tactics. To that end I suppose it would be more likely to be owned by people in those styles than others?

[Kurt Robbins]

Savate and countless other systems have some association with this type of kick, I have been eager to try this kick in the Muay Thai clinch, but in MMA it's illeagal. Any kick to the knee is illeagal. Considering the neck isn't twisted or frogged back and forth and you could get the kick off with a hunched back without eating knees is (for me) yet to be seen. As far as straight sparring the shovel kick or shin kick really is not devastating, at one time during my Baji training I could dent metal, yet when I sparred and utilized the kick all it did was stop my opponent from coming forward and did not damage him ( I was kicking at 80% power ) which also left me wide open for low tens and nines.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
i know jab was kinda kidding with the bruce lee quote but humans can move around and most wouldn't have someone standing behind them for bracing...

several kicks and punches can break bricks there's nothing special about the one posted. hell go to any tkd tournament and you'll see brick breaking galore.
SNIP

Word.
There was a case several years back of a British ITF TKD instructor clamping a pile of boards, surrounding it with WTF chest procectors, then side-kicking away. He broke the boards, and the proceeded to tell everyone how dangerous WTF (ie the modern, Games-style) TKD sparring was. Problem was, he didn't do it against a moving opponent who would give with his force. Though I grant you, if he clamped someone to a wall, took his time sizing him, up, aimed and fired a side kick, he would probably do some damage.

I am a bit surprised breaking demos are still done (and still impressing people) in this day and age.

I thought Kyokyushin had demolished this shibboleth (ie that if you can break bricks or boards, it actually reflects your striking skills against an opponent).

I don't know if they still do it, but in the past, after several rounds of knockdown, if the competitors had not managed to deck each other, they would decide the issue with how many bricks or boards they could break. Which indicates (duh!) "Hmmm, Competitor A can break x-many boards, but is unable to drop his opponent in the ring, so, erm..."

[DeusTrismegistus]

I think brick breaking is just a way of advertising really, and it does show that there is power to a technique. An untrained person can't break a brick or board without hurting themselves, so it does show a certain amount of skill above average involved.

In other words, your form has move x, but do you have move x?

For example, say your grandmaster's teacher taught him a reaping throw, which he trained for years and years until he could pull it off on anyone.

Then your grandmaster peppered it throughout the form, because he loved that move dearly.

Then you get his 1,000 students who say things like "we have loads of reaping throws in our style", even though they haven't internalized anything.

Unless they internalize it, all they have is a training method.

Truth is, you can extrapolate kicks to the shin from almost any style, but whether you own that move is a different matter altogether.

If your style does not have a shovel kick like the one demonstrated in any of the forms, then it would be impossible for someone to make that kick their own without reinventing it or going outside the style. I don't expect a pure TKD practitioner to "own" a hip throw, because that movement isn't in their style. In other words if your style doesn't have atraining method for a particular movement then you won't be capable of making it your own. Which is how a shovel kick can be found within a particular style.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
An untrained person can't break a brick or board without hurting themselves, so it does show a certain amount of skill above average involved.
SNIP
Hmmm. Last year I was at my daughter's TKD yellow belt grading (she was 7) and all the kids were doing a single break for their test. I was holding the board for Hannah, waiting for her turn to break, when another sprog down the line broke a board, so I applauded. As I was holding the board, I "clapped" the board, rather than my hand. It broke in half! Now of course, I am a highly trained individual with deadly skillz, but even so...