martin wheeler

[middleway]

real smooth movement ... but the work at the beginning is what interests me in this clip. The bodyweight stuff.



anyone other than the systema peeps do this sort of body weight work. Its something that i work alot in my training sessions.

also interesting seeing him and Kevin Secours doing their thing there ... both of them move real well.

cheers
Chris

[Ian]

yeah... martin is very good. nothing to add, really.

http://www.wheelersystema.com/martial-arts/video

[GrahamB]

This guy's presentation is far superior.

[Doc Stier]

Dammit, Graham!

Stop screwing around here. This is a serious thread, man.

[C.J.Wang]

I just have a general question regarding Systema knife defense. It seems that Systema practitioners, including what Vlad and several others that I've seen on video, prefer to "blend" as the knife slash or thrust comes in and allow the blade to be literally in contact with the body before controlling the knife and taking it away.

How safe is this approach when it comes to a real knife-disarming situation in which even light contact with the blade to the body can cause serious injury?

[D_Glenn]

I just have a general question regarding Systema knife defense. It seems that Systema practitioners, including what Vlad and several others that I've seen on video, prefer to "blend" as the knife slash or thrust comes in and allow the blade to be literally in contact with the body before controlling the knife and taking it away.

How safe is this approach when it comes to a real knife-disarming situation in which even light contact with the blade to the body can cause serious injury?

see http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6412

.

[Dr.Rob]

Clever Monster D-Glenn very clever.... Mr.Wheeler is a very talented chap for sure..great control...great control

[dtactics]

As Vlad said about Martin at a demo for the UN a couple of years ago, "There's 3 things about Martin- 1) He likes to hit hard. 2) He likes to hit hard. 3) He likes to hit hard. Wasn't so much flattering as it was to illustrate that Martin enjoys hurting people a bit too much. Following that experience, he told a group of us at a Cali seminar that he wished to change and to alert him whenever he gets out of hand. That said, he's one of the finest Systema teachers around and if you've any doubt about its efficacy than you should test your theories out on him.

[Ian]

the above is a good point. when you start to understand a little about striking, you have to be careful about how you use it. we have a big guy in our class who isn't aware of his own strength sometimes. hit me square in the sternum (after I'd explicitly talked about force continuum diagrams and the dangers of trauma to that area...). I'm glad it wasn't fractured but I had trouble breathing for a few days. shit happens in training but it's worth paying extra attention to minimise the frequency at which it happens.

[Ian]

prefer to "blend" as the knife slash or thrust comes in and allow the blade to be literally in contact with the body before controlling the knife and taking it away

those aren't hard and fast rules. in fact the thing about catching the knife on the body misses the point of the drill, IMO.

http://wheelersystema.com/130/ground-knife-work

How safe is this approach when it comes to a real knife-disarming situation in which even light contact with the blade to the body can cause serious injury?

contact with a knife doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get cut, and getting cut doesn't necessarily mean you're going to die.

[Doc Stier]

contact with a knife doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get cut, and getting cut doesn't necessarily mean you're going to die.

OMG!

Using maneuvers like that against an enemy who actually knows how to use a knife effectively, with speed and deception, would be totally disastrous, IMO.

Watching that last video clip brought back some very sad memories, and made every single hair on my body stand straight up on end!

[Ian]

your thoughts on the clips aside, do you think that the lightest contact with a blade CAN cause injury, or WILL cause injury? there's a difference.

[GrahamB]

your thoughts on the clips aside, do you think that the lightest contact with a blade CAN cause injury, or WILL cause injury? there's a difference.

Got to agree with Doc here. Lightest contact with your heavy overcoat then no. Lightest contact with your skin then yes. I understand the idea that letting the knife touch in a training 'play' can help you get over fear of the blade and familiarise you with it, but fear can also be a healthy thing.

[Ian]

Graham, do you even train knife defense...?

"Contact with a knife doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get cut"

Ever accidentally dropped a kitchen knife on your foot, or accidentally run it against your finger while slicing things yet didn't get cut? How about if the knife's being held against you - are you guaranteed to start bleeding? How about if you're wearing thick clothing? How about if the knife catches you on its blunt side or on the flat?

"Getting cut doesn't necessarily mean you're going to die."

According to Marc MacYoung, the ratio of knife injuries to deaths is something like 45:1. At any rate, stats show that not all attacks are fatal. Doc I even remember you agreed last time this clip was posted that being stabbed doesn't mean you're guaranteed to die.



Yes, this does apply:



but going into an edged weapon situation already accepting you're going to get cut... why plan on it? Yes, you can get cut, but your goal is to prevent getting cut.

[GrahamB]

Graham, do you even train knife defense...?

Yes - I train to run away or hand over my wallet.

"Contact with a knife doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get cut"

Ever accidentally dropped a kitchen knife on your foot, or accidentally run it against your finger while slicing things yet didn't get cut? How about if the knife's being held against you - are you guaranteed to start bleeding? How about if you're wearing thick clothing? How about if the knife catches you on its blunt side or on the flat?

Swap that around- have you ever dropped a knife in the kitchen AND got cut? Yeah. Me too. Why risk it when the odds are so high? I don't think it's rocket science....