Kurt Wong push hands seminar.

[bailewen]

I saw this in the related clips while I was browsing the other thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-RDcMUmBSw


A bit of a long intro but all enjoyable to watch.

4:30 or so there was some very seldom seen footwork. Nothing special really except that I never see it. Just walking around freely during push hands.

4:45 - A wonderful little tidbit on what it's like pushing with some of the scary older dudes and another extremely rarely shown link between push hands and sparring.

6:20 - Good talk on grappling and again, how striking and grappling mix although I disagree with his comments at 6:45 as I am taught to always invite them in and that position with both hands on the chest is on I am happy to be in actually. Great chin na set up but that's tangential to his general point.

All in all, one of the most practical push hands talks I have seen. Not terribly "technique" or application oriented but very practical in other ways.

[Bob]

Kurt Wong is a very decent person and good teacher. Thanks for posting, Omar! Appreciated much.

A couple of tidbits in this one too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBxpejczQkc

[Nick C]

4:45 - A wonderful little tidbit on what it's like pushing with some of the scary older dudes and another extremely rarely shown link between push hands and sparring.

It fits almost exactly with what I have been told by numerous people. The old masters moved you right from the first contact, never let you settle, and at the first moment of opening, they 'strike' (meaning push, deliver, throw - whatever, as apposed to punch )

[guobaolo]

Thanks for the kind remarks Omar. Wong shifu has relatively kept a low profile in the world of cmas and prefers it that way. It was only recently he has opened up and become more public via seminars hosted by us in Norway and my kungfu brother in Australia. We hope to share more of Wong shifu's teaching in future videos.

-paolo

[GrahamB]

ah... so Wong, but so right! I liked it.

[C.J.Wang]

Isn't it interesting to see someone who doesn't practice Taiji as his main art actually has better, more realistic, and applicable skills than those who do?

[C.J.Wang]

6:20 - Good talk on grappling and again, how striking and grappling mix although I disagree with his comments at 6:45 as I am taught to always invite them in and that position with both hands on the chest is on I am happy to be in actually. .

In PH, it's ok to invite people in and let them have both hands on your chest to set up for chin-na, throws, or projects. For a fight or sparring, it'd be suicidal against someone who's at your level or better with the ability to issue short power.


I think PH is a good training tool for certain aspects of MA, but, as my teacher always points out to me, overdoing it can be detrimental because it puts your mind in that "safe comfort zone" rather than being alert and knowing that you could be seriously injured at any given moment.

[bailewen]

Bob,

I'll check out the other clip a bit later. I don't feel like interrupting my streaming video on the Chinese sites by switching to my US server but thanks for the link. After watching the first video I think he's a real diamond in the rough. Deserves more attention.

CJ Wang,

I absolutely disagree. It's no more suicidal than any other showdown at the OK corral. His short power vs. my Chin Na. Winner takes all. Sure it's dangerous but fighting is dangerous. The qin na I practice actually requires that the other guy fa-jin if I want to do some damage. You suggested someone at my level or higher. Well if the person is not at my level or higher then I can guarantee over 90% success with my qin na against the other persons push or even against a palm strike. I've done it dozens of times and it nearly always results in the person yelping in pain from a tweaked wrist or fingers. The only people who it has not worked with have been people with comparable if not greater levels of training than me and generally with at least a little bit of push hands training.

... overdoing it can be detrimental because it puts your mind in that "safe comfort zone" rather than being alert and knowing that you could be seriously injured at any given moment.

That really depends on who you are pushing with. As Mr. Wong said in the clip when talking about pushing with some of the old timers, scary shit. I have no fear of serious injury with Shifu but I have no fear of serious injury sparring in a Muay Thai gym either. Serious pain yes, injury no. (accidents happen) Fact is, pushing with Shifu is scary. He tones it down for most people these days but in the past there have been push hands challenges which resulted in broken arms. Those challenges were not so friendly but you can say the same about regular sparring. There are friendly exchanges and those that are not so friendly or where there are just too many chips on shoulders.

In any case, testing to see if I can dissolve or redirect a short power burst is one of the things that Shifu occasionally tests me with in push hands. So I see the hypothetical of hands on chest as a challenge. Like a showdown at the ok corral. Lets just see who's faster...your jin or my listening.

[Ian]

4:45 - A wonderful little tidbit on what it's like pushing with some of the scary older dudes and another extremely rarely shown link between push hands and sparring.

It fits almost exactly with what I have been told by numerous people. The old masters moved you right from the first contact, never let you settle, and at the first moment of opening, they 'strike' (meaning push, deliver, throw - whatever, as apposed to punch )

wonderful. so (in your opinion), the old masters didn't hit either...

[bailewen]

Some did. But then, the one I have in mind started with Baji.

Baji + Taiji = fucking badass.

[C.J.Wang]

CJ Wang,

I absolutely disagree. It's no more suicidal than any other showdown at the OK corral. His short power vs. my Chin Na. Winner takes all. Sure it's dangerous but fighting is dangerous. The qin na I practice actually requires that the other guy fa-jin if I want to do some damage. You suggested someone at my level or higher. Well if the person is not at my level or higher then I can guarantee over 90% success with my qin na against the other persons push or even against a palm strike. I've done it dozens of times and it nearly always results in the person yelping in pain from a tweaked wrist or fingers. The only people who it has not worked with have been people with comparable if not greater levels of training than me and generally with at least a little bit of push hands training.

So you are saying that in a real fight when someone's coming in to strike your chest full-bore, you'd still prefer to let his hands touch your body and rely on your tinjin and chin-na skills rather than keeping him at bay and finish the fight at arm's length?

My tinjin and chin-na aren't that good. So I am sticking with what Master Wong said.

[bailewen]

Yes.

That is after all, what both Taiji and Baji were designed for. One of the absolute most difficult things with Shifu is to avoid "running away". Always enter. He is always criticizing people for trying to create space. The proper way to yield to a push (or palm strike) to the torso is to move in. It's counter-intuitive at first but there's a way to do it and it really is yielding. You redirect the force in a very small circle from the heel of the hand into your body and then back out into the striking hands fingertips.

Full speed palm strikes is a fairly regular thing. If they don't come in full bore, you can't really do any damage with the shen-fa. For Baji is it even more core and less listening is required. Every hand strike in Baji is really a chest strike. For Baji it would be force on force but I train daily to strike with the chest. What do you think all that tree banging is about? How about the numerous strikes you do to your own chest in the form. Largely to entrain that bit of shenfa. When the palm strikes, so does the chest.

It's a special skill and it can be applied for real.

Again, of course I can't do this to everyone anymore than I could guarantee landing a punch or a kick but if the attack comes in, palm or palms to the chest, it's not especially harder for me to damage the wrist than it is for many others to catch a round kick and sweep the leg.

[Walk the Torque]

6:20 - Good talk on grappling and again, how striking and grappling mix although I disagree with his comments at 6:45 as I am taught to always invite them in and that position with both hands on the chest is on I am happy to be in actually. .

In PH, it's ok to invite people in and let them have both hands on your chest to set up for chin-na, throws, or projects. For a fight or sparring, it'd be suicidal against someone who's at your level or better with the ability to issue short power.

Classics say don't do it.

[bailewen]

Could you quote the passage? I have not come across anything like that.

[Adam S]

Isn't it interesting to see someone who doesn't practice Taiji as his main art actually has better, more realistic, and applicable skills than those who do?

Have to disagree- no offense to Master Wong, seems like a good teacher